Finalizing s/v Jedi DC diagram

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Well- one should always have a plan B,C AND E

OK the question was: What if the A2B charger fails (Yes it is a single point of failure)?
THEN I bypass it and charge directly from the alternator. Will take me 5 minutes time - everything is prepaired.

Charging choices
Solar -
Wind -
Generator
Alternator

btw: what if the Alternator fails?
I have a spare one - airtight sealed on board.

What I want to say - again - is: do not rely on any part you mount as a single source but do not install things as backup that can fail too..

Not easy to do but the main rules are:

KEEP IT SIMPLE
WHAT I DO NOT HAVE CAN NOT FAIL

example: the newest generation of boats do not have fuses and switches at all. Everything is via the 2 Plotters.

Took me 2 times half an hour to find the screen where I could activate the windlass.
Hell I am an IT-Prof (Linux-Servers) but I'll stay of that scrap!

My 1997 Toyota Hiace have not got any electronics and minimum electrics. I will have this car until I die - because of this! Still no problems since 20 years.

So what we have on our main panel is the same as what you have except for the dc-dc converters which are required when different battery chemistries and/or voltages are used. We may have more bilge pumps but we’re also a larger boat with three watertight compartments.

I think most boats eliminate the 2nd battery monitor and only monitor voltage of the starter bank. We (unfortunately) have a bunch of 12V electric winches so a bit more demanding on the 12V starting bank.

[moseriw]

I decided to install battery monitors for EACH bank CHARGING and one extra for the HOUSE LOAD.

Mine are cheap china XURM units - around USD 20 each and one of them is in use since 2017 without any problems. I am only interested in Volts and Amps

And please forget the "State of Charge" indicators as they can not really measure it. They are only able to calculate it out of the Voltage, that is:

12,65 V full
12,20 V 50% == CHARGE NOW to keept them healty

11.90 V Empty

This is all one need to take care of the charging state.

Stay off these expesive USD 200 ++ battery monitors. You buy a brand and the contain the same electronics as the XURM

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by moseriw

I decided to install battery monitors for EACH bank CHARGING and one extra for the HOUSE LOAD.

Mine are cheap china XURM units - around USD 20 each and one of them is in use since 2017 without any problems. I am only interested in Volts and Amps

And please forget the "State of Charge" indicators as they can not really measure it. They are only able to calculate it out of the Voltage, that is:

12,65 V full
12,20 V 50% == CHARGE NOW to keept them healty

11.90 V Empty

This is all one need to take care of the charging state.

Stay off these expesive USD 200 ++ battery monitors. You buy a brand and the contain the same electronics as the XURM

Your calling for "cheap cheap" and calling what others should do is out of line, you're just looking for forum mayhem entertainment and that does not belong in this thread so please leave.

All that is in this thread is not for your boat, it is for my boat and a much higher standard than your ideas show. Also, this thread is not about the cheapest option; it is about the option that keeps a boat operational at all times.

[s/v Jedi]

So the DC distribution is a very simple panel. I must have missed some breakers but I really think this is all there is.

This panel is 8" high and 8.75" wide. All panels have a 0.75" wide flange around the perimeter for mounting.

[moseriw]

Oh my - it realy is a pity how much the soul of sailors changed but indeed people who are not willing to follow the rule "audiator et altera pars" are definitively not the part I am willing to bring me in.

[BenBowSirocco]

Hey Jedi,

Have you done any reading on the Balmar "Smart Gauge"? We switched to one and all I can say are positive expletives: "Wow", "Awesome", "Great" "Grand".... Not the usual type of expletives that I used to describe my old victron monitor. Might be worth a look.

Also, have you looked at "Boca" switches? Very attractive and lit like your toggles, but much more compact on the surface, although deep in draft behind the panel. They are exterior rated waterproof switches that are very common in center console panels.

Great diagram. I follow this just so I can use your example.. haha



moseriw: not your boat dude. Keep you boat simple if you like, but let each man paddle his own canoe.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Your calling for "cheap cheap"

It is a common thread here. Constantly I think "Wow, maybe you should have worked for a year or two more". I simply don't want the cheapest option, even if it functions the same. There is a certain beauty to boats that have proper matched components installed with lots of thought. Your original photo of the Victron equipment lined up inspired me to move that direction electrically.

Originally Posted by moseriw

Oh my - it realy is a pity how much the soul of sailors changed but indeed people who are not willing to follow the rule "audiator et altera pars" are definitively not the part I am willing to bring me in.

Interesting phrase. I hadn't read it before. The sentence as a whole confused me though.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

Hey Jedi,

Have you done any reading on the Balmar "Smart Gauge"? We switched to one and all I can say are positive expletives: "Wow", "Awesome", "Great" "Grand".... Not the usual type of expletives that I used to describe my old victron monitor. Might be worth a look.

Also, have you looked at "Boca" switches? Very attractive and lit like your toggles, but much more compact on the surface, although deep in draft behind the panel. They are exterior rated waterproof switches that are very common in center console panels.

Great diagram. I follow this just so I can use your example.. haha

I read about many problems with the Smartgauge and it being not suited for lithium at all. I have little faith in accurate monitoring based on voltage for lithium. Even if that worked, they do not integrate into the Victron GX monitoring so I would not be able to use them anyway.

For switches I have the Contura switches everywhere so keeping them all the same. They never failed me but I have replaced some of the faces when they got ugly with the years. Also, the Blue System remote battery switches come with Contura switches with custom faces, lockout slides etc.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Palarran

It is a common thread here. Constantly I think "Wow, maybe you should have worked for a year or two more". I simply don't want the cheapest option, even if it functions the same. There is a certain beauty to boats that have proper matched components installed with lots of thought. Your original photo of the Victron equipment lined up inspired me to move that direction electrically.

It’s not just it needs to be cheap, there is a level of ignorance too, like the claim that battery monitors “calculate state of charge from the voltage”. If there is no awareness of coulomb counting and how that works then voicing opinion on battery monitors is ridiculous imho

I have cheap AC multimeters in my AC Main panel and I also have the most expensive ones from Blue System now. The new cheap ones work fine and can count energy use which the old & expensive can’t. One of those also failed and they sent me a new one free of charge. That one has burned out segments on it’s display as well and I just gave up even though I think they would send another new one. So I do buy cheap at times as well. Then there are people who consider Victron “cheap”. There are plenty more expensive brands.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

If there is no awareness of coulomb counting and how that works then voicing opinion on battery monitors is ridiculous imho

Ooops. I thought they worked on smoke, like most of my other electrical things.

[BenBowSirocco]

Thats good to know it is not well suited to Lithium. I had never looked into it as we operate with AGM.

I agree with your choice to stick with what is standard on the boat in regards to switches- its so nice when everything is as similar as possible! haha

[s/v Jedi]

I managed to reduce height of all panels to 7.5" which is the height Blue Sea Systems uses for 8 breaker high rows. It also makes it easier to create the required room for installation for us.

I have been busy with ordering everything. It's all on the way: all Victron gear, Lithium cells, solar panels, mounting materials etc.

I received the solar panels today, wow, 5x 375W !

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I managed to reduce height of all panels to 7.5" which is the height Blue Sea Systems uses for 8 breaker high rows. It also makes it easier to create the required room for installation for us.

I have been busy with ordering everything. It's all on the way: all Victron gear, Lithium cells, solar panels, mounting materials etc.

I received the solar panels today, wow, 5x 375W ! [emoji3]

What lithium battery did you get?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by chowdan

What lithium battery did you get?

I ordered 8 Winston 400Ah cells from Skypower.

[chowdan]

Nice! I was looking at them earlier in the year! I'm curious how you like them when they get built and installed!

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I ordered 8 Winston 400Ah cells from Skypower.