FireFly Battery Operational User Notes

[sailorboy1]

I adjusted my alternator bulk and absorption voltage to 14.3 as actual voltage read higher than the 14.4 spec. I don't know if 14.45 would cause a problem long term and decided I didn't want to find out.

Because of this my battery never got to the 14.4v and 1% acceptance from just the alternator for tge battery monitor to reset. Even though a couple of days ago i motored 6 hours. Ysyerday the sun came out and solar did get the batteries to fully charged, but I noticed that the BM was still reading -33ah at he time.

So now i am trying the 94% CEF setting.

This like a hobby

[sailorboy1]

Dang! The 94% appears to be too low. Couple months ago when the batteries were new 88% was looking to be right. But now that I have been out of a slip and the batteries are seeing more use it appears that charge efficiency has been increasing. Wonder is they need time to “break in”.

I will say I am slowing getting better with the idea that they don't need to be fully charged as often.

[RickG]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Dang! The 94% appears to be too low. Couple months ago when the batteries were new 88% was looking to be right. But now that I have been out of a slip and the batteries are seeing more use it appears that charge efficiency has been increasing. Wonder is they need time to “break in”.

I will say I am slowing getting better with the idea that they don't need to be fully charged as often.

Peukert is an odd chap. I'm doing well at 94%. Your capacity may be higher than labeled after break in. We are heading North to St. Lucia and will spend three nights at Rodney Bay Marina. I am thinking of doing a restoration charge. I think our capacity is down a bit based on the voltage / SOC curve.

Cheers, RickG

[dfelsent]

I’m on my second season with three Firefly L15s in a 450 Ah bank.
I’ve got an old Merlin smart gauge that is kind of like licking your finger and feeling the wind. And an ammeter and voltmeters. Cross calibrated with various hand held meters.

I’ve got engine, solar, and wind charging.

This spring I almost pulled the trigger on the very nice BMV-712.
I held off and am actually glad I did.
Part of my goal with the Firefly batteries was to let go of constantly attending to state of charge.
If I had the 712 I’d be obsessing over getting it set up just right. I am a techie. Instead I’m more able to let go.
Based on my usage patterns and the battery’s charge acceptance they are still in fine shape.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by akopac

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A couple questions:
1. Has anybody come up with a CEF number for the Link 10 yet?
2. How about low battery voltage?
3. Is anybody else using the Tracer BN controller and what charge parameters did you use?
4. What Ample power settings for battery type did you use successfully?

......................

This link will ansewer your questions and includes a very detailed discussion of the Link 10, too. It also includes a cross link to Maine Sail's companion piece on the same subject.



For everyone installing a battery monitor: The "Gotcha Algorithm" thread, a "MUST READ"

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4922.0.html

DEFAULTS are factory settings that are made to be modified to suit your setup.

Also read this one:

Programming a Battery Monitor (by Maine Sail)

https://marinehowto.com/programming-a-battery-monitor/


EDIT: Just realized this is a duplicate, sorry.

[Madehn]

Thanks for this thread!!! it stayed on track for the most part and was totally free of personal and rancorous comments. I learned a lot and since i am looking at replacing my entire battery bank very soon it was useful- i had not considered FF previously and was pretty much soured on AGMs from my experience with Lifeline previously- thanks again.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You have a reference for that? I’m not sure it’s correct, the 614 does not know amps just voltage and percent of field drive
https://marinehowto.com/programming-...age-regulator/
Ref #4 under tech tips

In essence it’s pretty much a timer like most other charge sources

The Balmar MC614 has a dumb timer for bulk/acceptance mode switch to float, but the factory setting of 30 minutes can be programmed to as long as you want. However you need to be careful about that to avoid overcharging.

To make their product more simple and cheaper, the Balmar folks did not include a charge current monitor such as found in the Heart/Xantrex AC chargers. These AC chargers use a current shunt to monitor acceptance current and when it drops to less than a preset percentage of battery capacity, it drops the acceptance voltage down to float. It is a vast improvement over Balmar and I don't know why Balmar has not corrected this deficiency - add one current shunt, two wires to it and some programming please!

When I am motoring and the Balmar has gone to float mode but I know my batteries need more charge by looking at my AH meter, I simply turn off the ignition switch for a few seconds to reset the Balmar regulator. Turn ignition back on and the Balmar will go for another of it's bulk charge periods. I can do this with the engine still running since we have a manual engine stop system and the injection is not electronic. If you have a diesel injection system where turning ignition off stops the engine, you could add a momentary push button switch in the +12V supply to the regulator to force the reset.

The MC614 design must be 25 years old now. I think I installed mine in 1996 and it is still going strong, but has always needed improvement to allow smart switch from acceptance to float, not the dumb timer.

If there is another model or brand alternator regulator that does have smart current sensing, I'd like to know about it!

[bcboomer]

WS500

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by waterman46

.......Balmar folks did not include a charge current monitor such as found in the Heart/Xantrex AC chargers. These AC chargers use a current shunt to monitor acceptance current and when it drops to less than a preset percentage of battery capacity, it drops the acceptance voltage down to float.

If there is another model or brand alternator regulator that does have smart current sensing, I'd like to know about it!

Which Xantrex chargers are you referring to?


Here's the link to Wakespeed - the most advanced alternator regulator available. Wakespeed Products

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Which Xantrex chargers are you referring to?

Here's the link to Wakespeed - the most advanced alternator regulator available. Wakespeed Products

Hey thanks! The Wakespeed alternator regulator does have current monitoring to determine when acceptance current has dropped to the right place to switch to float voltage, which the old Balmar MC614 did not. My next upgrade!

I just remembered that the current monitor feature for end of acceptance charging, is actually performed by the "Link" battery monitor which is an add-on to the Freedom charger. My AC to 12V battery charger/inverter is the old Freedom 2000, made by company "Heart Interface" back around 2000 and earlier I guess. Line taken over by Xantrex at some point.

The Freedom 2000 charges at 100A in bulk mode and is controlled by the Link monitor, whch has shunt for current monitoring to know when to switch to float. But the inverter is modified sine wave. Looks like Xantrex has a new lineup and they now have improved the inverter section to be true sine wave.

Inverter Charger | Freedom SW Inverter/Charger | Xantrex

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

This link will ansewer your questions and includes a very detailed discussion of the Link 10, too. It also includes a cross link to Maine Sail's companion piece on the same subject.



For everyone installing a battery monitor: The "Gotcha Algorithm" thread, a "MUST READ"

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4922.0.html

DEFAULTS are factory settings that are made to be modified to suit your setup.

Also read this one:

Programming a Battery Monitor (by Maine Sail)

https://marinehowto.com/programming-a-battery-monitor/


EDIT: Just realized this is a duplicate, sorry.

Stu, something is wrong with the scenario where the charging voltage drops suddenly from 14.4 down to a much lower value near the end of acceptance mode, due to a small additional 12V load coming on line. If this did happen, then yes, I agree the battery monitor would be fooled into thinking that the batteries were fully charged.

That should not be what happens, unless something is wrong with the wiring or the charger itself. At the point where the battery is nearing full charge, the battery charge current is low, in the example cited, only 13A. Then the author of that post says his reefer switches on but that is only an additional 5A. That's a very small additional load that should not cause the charger output to drop at all, since it is capable of full rated output, or nearly so, at 14.4V, and total load at that point is only 18A.

My reefer drew 32A on start up, 28A long term, and I never saw that problem. I have an older Link monitor but I've just read the manual for the new one by Xantrex, and it seems to work the same way.


Or, maybe I already programmed the charged voltage parameter to 14.4 and forgot I did that!
In any case, it's good to know how this works.


I'm not denying there could be such a problem, but I just don't understand why the charging voltage would drop so far when it's still being commanded to be at acceptance voltage of 14.4V and the current is far below capacity of the charger.

[sailorboy1]

Well i have my battery monitor charge efficiency at 95% now. That appears to be working. As an exFLA user i find the 95% CE amazing.

[RickG]

Yep, we are back at 95%. It seems about right after some month of experimenting. I need to change the battery monitor fuse from 100ma to 1 amp; Victron shipped some battery monitors with the wrong fuse and the 100ma fuse causes voltage drop. Then I can plot SOC vs voltage and see if we need to a capacity refresh.

Cheers, Rick

[sailorboy1]

Wow, i will check that fuse (sometime)

[sailorboy1]

So what value for full charge tail amps are people using. Nothing in the manual gives you a tail amp level. There is of course the recovery procedure of 0.5 amp for the G31. But is a recovery the same as fully charged or is that really beyond that? Plus my understanding is the it sed to say 1.5amps.