FireFly Battery Operational User Notes

[Panope]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Are we annoying you somehow?

No, not at all.

In fact, I thank you for enlightening me about how these batteries may more complicated to operate than I at first assumed.

I bought my current set of flooded batteries 9 years ago and simply switched my solar controller to "lead acid". I would really like to replace with Firefly but maybe they are not right for this wannabe luddite.


Steve

[sailorboy1]

After a week of operation i would say they aren't complicated at all. Mostly we have been posting about battery monitors and settings.

[kmacdonald]

Complicated? Have you seen some of the "rules of the road" threads? They turn a simple accident that both parties are responsible for into human gene mapping.

[Cthoops]

Originally Posted by Panope

No, not at all.

In fact, I thank you for enlightening me about how these batteries may more complicated to operate than I at first assumed.

I bought my current set of flooded batteries 9 years ago and simply switched my solar controller to "lead acid". I would really like to replace with Firefly but maybe they are not right for this wannabe luddite.


Steve

They aren’t complicated at all. Don’t let this thread dissuade you from them.

We are total luddites when it comes to electrical things. Our Fireflys were installed two years ago. We have completely ignored them since then with the exception of pushing the button on our Balmar battery monitor a few times a week to see what it said for state of charge (we are full time cruisers).

The Balmar died a month ago and we have so much confidence in the batteries that we decided not to bother with replacing it. Our only concession to not having the monitor is checking the voltage with a basic multimeter once a month to keep an eye on them, but at this point I don’t think we really even need to do that.

The batteries are truly set it and forget it.

[dfelsent]

Going on two years now with 3xL15. I kind of like my Merlin smartgauge to read over 60%. Twice this year it’s read 100. Last year never.
Between solar wind and engine it’s not hard to avoid running the batteries flat. On a mooring of the hook. No shore power. I’ve never seen below 50%.
I run the engine when they are low and don’t worry otherwise.
And I do this. .......
Yes I charge to 14.4 then drop to float. I’ve had two very different regulator systems (one failed) and programmed both to do that.
Otherwise??!!!! Go sailing.
That’s m more re fun than messing with batteries.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by dfelsent

Going on two years now with 3xL15. I kind of like my Merlin smartgauge to read over 60%. Twice this year it’s read 100. Last year never.
Between solar wind and engine it’s not hard to avoid running the batteries flat. On a mooring of the hook. No shore power. I’ve never seen below 50%.
I run the engine when they are low and don’t worry otherwise.
And I do this. .......
Yes I charge to 14.4 then drop to float. I’ve had two very different regulator systems (one failed) and programmed both to do that.
Otherwise??!!!! Go sailing.
That’s m more re fun than messing with batteries.

I too have the Smartgauge and my entire battery management plan consists of just making sure I have at least 35- 40% on the monitor before I go to bed so I have enough energy in the morning to run the coffee maker and stuff without having to turn the generator on. I really don’t care about much more than that. I have never looked at decreasing voltage or anything to try to determine full charge and since I don’t have a countdown monitor I have not had to deal with the resetting issue, etc. Not dealing with PSC issues has been very pleasant.

[RickG]

Originally Posted by Panope

No, not at all.

In fact, I thank you for enlightening me about how these batteries may more complicated to operate than I at first assumed.

I bought my current set of flooded batteries 9 years ago and simply switched my solar controller to "lead acid". I would really like to replace with Firefly but maybe they are not right for this wannabe luddite.


Steve

The batteries are really quite simple and care free. My bank was at 50% DOD this morning, -400A, and no worries. The tricky part for us is getting the battery monitor settings right. A SmartGuage would be quite easy with these. Getting the Victron battery monitor set properly has taken longer than I expected, but this is working just fine and dandy now.

Cheers, RickG

[Panope]

Thanks Rick (and others),

If I switch to Firefly, I am willing to buy a new solar controller but that is it. There will be no battery monitor, No adjustable alternator regulator (keep stock Hitachi), No battery charger (no shore power) (when the boat is in the shed during the winter, I occasionally charge with an automotive charger).

I will be willing to educate myself as to the initial set-up of the solar controller but I can promise that I will quickly forget the details of the set-up.

If my alternator's output voltage is too high for Firefly, I will be willing to isolate the house bank (flip a switch) during long motor passages. I will remember to do this most of the time.

The flooded batteries (Dyno) that I have now, have lasted 9 years. I am reasonably certain they have never been below 50% DOD. I have ran the engine for the purpose of battery charging 1 time during this 9 year period.

The simple solution for my battery replacement is just get another set of Dyno flooded batteries as they have worked flawlessly for 9 years.

The reason for switching to Firefly is to be able (in theory) to go with a smaller bank (1 group 31 Firefly replaces 2 group 31 flooded). This assumes the Firefly will tolerate an occasional dip bellow 50% DOD.

Does that sound workable?

[sailorboy1]

Heck if i had your use and life with just 2 regular G31s fla it would have been crazy to pay $$$ to have switched to FF.

I dont feel it reasonable to expect 1 FF to 2 FLA.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by Panope

Thanks Rick (and others),

If I switch to Firefly, I am willing to buy a new solar controller but that is it. There will be no battery monitor, No adjustable alternator regulator (keep stock Hitachi), No battery charger (no shore power) (when the boat is in the shed during the winter, I occasionally charge with an automotive charger).

I will be willing to educate myself as to the initial set-up of the solar controller but I can promise that I will quickly forget the details of the set-up.

If my alternator's output voltage is too high for Firefly, I will be willing to isolate the house bank (flip a switch) during long motor passages. I will remember to do this most of the time.

The flooded batteries (Dyno) that I have now, have lasted 9 years. I am reasonably certain they have never been below 50% DOD. I have ran the engine for the purpose of battery charging 1 time during this 9 year period.

The simple solution for my battery replacement is just get another set of Dyno flooded batteries as they have worked flawlessly for 9 years.

The reason for switching to Firefly is to be able (in theory) to go with a smaller bank (1 group 31 Firefly replaces 2 group 31 flooded). This assumes the Firefly will tolerate an occasional dip bellow 50% DOD.

Does that sound workable?

We’ve had FF for over 3 years. The only thing I’d worry about is charging with too high a voltage, because as I understand, one way to shorten their life is to boil out the electrolyte. I wouldn’t worry about 50% DOD. I’ve been told 80% discharges can be done with little concern.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Heck if i had your use and life with just 2 regular G31s fla it would have been crazy to pay $$$ to have switched to FF.

I dont feel it reasonable to expect 1 FF to 2 FLA.

The 2 FLA bank is now larger than I need as I recently ditched the Engel cooler and converted my small and super insulated ice box to 12V. Refrigeration is now consuming only 16 AH per day.

If 1FF is 75% of 2 FLA then that would suit me fine.

Steve

[akopac]

Hi Folks
I have 4 FF's heading my way for my boat. For charging I have:
400W solar on a EPEVER Tracer BN controler
110W constant duty Leese Nevile alternator on a Ample Power V3 regulator
Shorepower is through a Xantrex 50W XC5012 (Honda EU1000 power backup)
Xantrex Link 10 Monitor

Everything is already installed with battery temperature compensation.
I'm putting a blower on the alternator and routing heat overboard. Batteries are in the lazarette floor not in engine compartment.
I'm going to derate the alternator with the Ample power controller as well to keep alternator happy.

A couple questions:
1. Has anybody come up with a CEF number for the Link 10 yet?
2. How about low battery voltage?
3. Is anybody else using the Tracer BN controller and what charge parameters did you use?
4. What Ample power settings for battery type did you use successfully?

I read through the almost all the threads on FireFlies and have seen some hints, but not all of the information. I hate reinventing the wheel. I will be full time cruising.

[sailorboy1]

that info is in this thread's postings

[RickG]

1. Has anybody come up with a CEF number for the Link 10 yet?

Sailorboy mentioned 88% and I am using 90%. Check Sailorboy's post regarding his conversation with Bruce Shwab.

2. How about low battery voltage?

10.5V is low. For us, we never go below 12V and I want to know if the voltage dips below 12.3V

3. Is anybody else using the Tracer BN controller and what charge parameters did you use?

None reported.

4. What Ample power settings for battery type did you use successfully?

Here, again, are the Balmar settings.

Cheers, RickG

[sailorboy1]

Here is what Bruce replied to me regarding tail current for battery monitor use for SOC rese:


"Hi Don,

1% (1.1A per battery) is fine for normal cycling. I think the section that mentions getting down to the .5A acceptance is more about the periodic restoration charge cycling (if necessary). That's something you might do after a long period of PSOC cycling when the batteries aren't getting full charge sessions.
Bruce Schwab
President, OceanPlanet Energy"

I still have my CEF at 88% that seemed to hit 100% right about 0 CE. I feel this is conservative and if anything the battery would be more charged that the SOC indicates. But doing the math on CE out and total AH capacity it seems to be working.

I have my low voltage alarm at 12 and my SOC at 40%. In past running the microwave off inverter trips the voltage alarm (haven't tried with the FF) and since 70% SOC would be an unusual low amount for me I would like to get the alarm earlier and not later. I figure a 20% buffer would be a couple of days of low solar and I should consider doing something about it. These are all just user preference I feel.