Firefly Oasis : 2 years old and dead

[john61ct]

Yes, the product line is not the problem, just some instances snuck through in the transition to production from India.

Others who had that issue were taken care of under warranty.

From which dealer were they purchased?

For others in NA coming across this, only buy through OceanPlanet's distribution network, never from other sales reps or direct import from India.

[FredVeroMakani]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes, the product line is not the problem, just some instances snuck through in the transition to production from India.

Others who had that issue were taken care of under warranty.

From which dealer were they purchased?

For others in NA coming across this, only buy through OceanPlanet's distribution network, never from other sales reps or direct import from India.

I bought them from Ocean Planet and they really stood behind their product.
But, it has been long and painful to arrive to the point we all agreed they were shot.

[CapnBazza]

Originally Posted by FredVeroMakani

Hi,
two years ago I Installed 4 xAGM firefly G31 (4 x 116AH @12V) on our boat. We live aboard and have been cruising in the Med, through the Atlantic and Caribeean.
When I first received them, they had been leaking during shipment and had faulty valves that I had to change once sent from India.
The first capacity test only yielded 75% of rated capacity. After a year of service, the capacity test yielded 50% of rated capacity and we found out that one battery was bad. It got replaced under warranty. I was asked by the head of engineering at Firefly to revive the bank by equalizing them (which we are not supposed to, but...) It worked to some extant. One year later, bank capacity is below 50%, and Firefly has accepted to replace the three other batteries.
I have 350W of solar (yielding max of 1.7kWh /day), with a Victron MPPT controller, a Balmar AT200 and a 614 external regulator. We are barely at the dock, but when we are, I have a programable Victron Multiplus Compact Inverter/charger 70A.
I have followed all Firedly recommendation as far as settings.

So... Have you experienced such longevity issues with these batteries? what is your experience? do you follow the monthly maintenance/restoration process?
I m heading to the Pacific after moving up north the the Sea of Cortez, but would like to get know if I should switch to lithium (Trojan Trillium) before we go to the South Pacific.

All inputs are welcome. thank you.

Go LiFePO4!

[john61ct]

I would stick to Bruce for your LFP too, if you decide to go that way.

Trillium may be cheaper but you're really being a beta tester.

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

What you have is a fragile battery that is not ideal for deep cycle

This touches on a point I have been wondering about.

My power draw is very little IMO. As little at 11 AH to my stand alone fridge all night. As much as 23 if I run fans and watch movies into the night.

I say night because that's all that concerns me. My point is, has solar made DEEP CYCLE a concern from days gone by? Before solar?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Minggat

This touches on a point I have been wondering about.

My power draw is very little IMO. As little at 11 AH to my stand alone fridge all night. As much as 23 if I run fans and water movies into the night.

I say night because that's all that concerns me. My point is, has solar made DEEP CYCLE a concern from days gone by? Before solar?

really your draw is only 24ah tops ?
With a good solar install and that kind of a draw ( mine is similar ) you should look at going Lfp my 100ah will easily carry my boat for 2 days no sun (100ah diy bank ) will last for decades.

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by newhaul

really your draw is only 24ah tops ?
With a good solar install and that kind of a draw ( mine is similar ) you should look at going Lfp my 100ah will easily carry my boat for 2 days no sun (100ah diy bank ) will last for decades.

I have 6 or 7 years on my Odyssey TPPL AGMs. Still serving me very well, with zero maintenance for all the years.

I read about AGMs being vulnerable to sulfation, and i’m listening. The Fireflies are marketed with superior resistance to sulffation, so I want to know I I should consider the change before I head to the South Pacific.

[john61ct]

Deep cycling is a broad category of usage, as opposed to cranking Starters or standby UPS.

Never drawing below 80% SoC just means you could get by with a smaller Ah capacity bank.

You still want good quality batteries designed for true deep cycling.

FF unique value among lead is in not losing as much longevity from chronic PSOC cycling.

If you are regularly able to get back to true 100% Full, then Odyssey (also Lifeline or Northstar) may well be better value. Assuming you do need a sealed bank as opposed to FLA.

Making the jump to LFP may also be a good choice, but IMO first requires a fair bit of study and preparation, design work etc, and it sounds to me like you want to make a fairly quick decision here.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Minggat

I have 6 or 7 years on my Odyssey TPPL AGMs. Still serving me very well, with zero maintenance for all the years.

I read about AGMs being vulnerable to sulfation, and i’m listening. The Fireflies are marketed with superior resistance to sulffation, so I want to know I I should consider the change before I head to the South Pacific.

being where you are you have the ability of getting Lfp relatively low cost per ah from Chinese suppliers locally and cheaper than many others can.

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Never drawing below 80% SoC just means you could get by with a smaller Ah capacity bank.

You still want good quality batteries designed for true deep cycling.

..., and it sounds to me like you want to make a fairly quick decision here.

Actually I am in Indonesia, while my boat is waiting in Hawaii. Several months yet to go.

I have actually been thinking about Fireflies for a couple of years. But I think that my babying the Odyssey batteries has been very healthy for them so far. I'm just trying to be ahead of any dreaded sulffation issues.

I'm also watching to see what BMW does with sodium batteries. I believe they bought the technology and are developing it.

[curtis742]

If AGM batteries are charged at too high of an amp rate bubbles will form between the glass mat and the plates. This reduces the available surface area and well as capacity.
Up

[john61ct]

Never came across that.

The **minimum** current charge rate for longevity is 0.2 - .4C for quality deep cycling AGM.

So for a 500Ah bank, 100-200A, minimum.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Lithium is a good option for boats with very high peak demands such as electric cooking, air con run off batteries, electric drive or very large inverters. Anything above about C4 discharge rate seriously reduces the capacity of a lead acid battery but Lithium will handle it no problems. Costs are extreme, technology on boats is still somewhat cutting edge but progressing rapidly and it requires a good level of technical knowledge to set the system up. It does not look 'plug and play' to me yet. If you have these sort of high demands or just have no room to fit normal batteries it may be worth looking into otherwise why spend the $.

Never seen a 4C discharge scenario before, but if you were to routinely draw 2000 amps from a 500 Ah LFP bank, you'd have unfortunate consequences, never mind wiring heavy enough to be the vessel's ballast.

The advantages of LFP are stable voltage throughout the discharge cycle; their ability to absorb a lot of current during charging with minimal absorption times, which reduces genset runtime; high energy density reducing footprint, and extraordinary longevity.

Their disadvantage is high initial cost.

If their advantages overcome their disadvantage, they are a great solution with plug and play options like Lithionics available.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Never came across that.

The **minimum** current charge rate for longevity is 0.2 - .4C for quality deep cycling AGM.

So for a 500Ah bank, 100-200A, minimum.

interesting please provide reference for your charge rate assertion .

Rolls has something completely different to say about it .
They call for a minimum of .1C. An optimum of .2C. And a maximum of .3C.
https://rammb-slider.cira.colostate....x=12934&y=1320

Charging at .4C can void the warranty and cause premature failure of the battery.
Lots of money to throw down the drain .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Never seen a 4C discharge scenario before, but if you were to routinely draw 2000 amps from a 500 Ah LFP bank, you'd have unfortunate consequences, never mind wiring heavy enough to be the vessel's ballast.

The advantages of LFP are stable voltage throughout the discharge cycle; their ability to absorb a lot of current during charging with minimal absorption times, which reduces genset runtime; high energy density reducing footprint, and extraordinary longevity.

Their disadvantage is high initial cost.

If their advantages overcome their disadvantage, they are a great solution with plug and play options like Lithionics available.

honestly I think he ment .4C which actually is bad for consistent draw on Fla but no issue for Lfp.