Firefly Oasis : 2 years old and dead

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife

Not helpful! And probably not correct.



Here is what I find in my Lifeline Technical Manual, page 20 (it doesn't let me copy and paste the text, so I have to use images). Since we avoid discharging deeper than 50%, the point of a needed 0.2C charging capability is not supported by (this section) of the manual. If you find something, please do provide a citation, not just "find it yourself".

so essentially that says lower than .2C is quite acceptable ..
That does kind of goes against the prior statements of .2C being the minimum charge rate.

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by newhaul

so essentially that says lower than .2C is quite acceptable ..
That does kind of goes against the prior statements of .2C being the minimum charge rate.

That is my thinking, but the people who don't provide cites seem to think they are correct too...

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by newhaul

so essentially that says lower than .2C is quite acceptable ..
That does kind of goes against the prior statements of .2C being the minimum charge rate.

That was my point exactly. There is just so many variables and BS on this site about "optimizing for longevity" we tend to forget just how old and studied the lead acid battery technology is. FLA, AGM, GEL it's all just lead acid.

Examples...you can't equalized AGM but Lifeline says it's essential. Gels must have a tightly controlled, lower CV value but I knew David Smead before he founded Ample Power, back in the now defunct Cruising Equipment days and he had a bank of Sonneschein gels for a decade in his RV that he charged at 14.6 and floated at a higher voltage as well. He swore by his charging regimen and it's so counter to the almost religious tenets posted here at times.

Sailorboy1 says it best in paraphrase..."treat them as a consumable and enjoy life"

[FlyingScot]

Since the thread is talking about FF Oasis, here is what they say:
https://oceanplanetenergy.com/wp-con...al-G31-L15.pdf
"For repetitive deep cycling, note that periodic fast charging has a positive impact on
effective battery capacity. If deep cycling, ideally once or twice per week, the batteries
should be charged at a current of 0.4C or more (40 Amps for a 100 Ah battery), or at
least 25A per battery. Note that periodic fast charging can help restore usable capacity
after periods of constant slow charging after deep discharge cycles. For applications
lacking fast charging capability, contact OPE or Firefly USA for alternative restoration
procedures. Due to the low impedance design, Oasis batteries can tolerate in-rush
current levels as high as 3C (300A for a 100Ah battery)."

It appears that if you deeply discharge your battery, the mfg wants a quicker recharge.

We have a big solar and barely meet 0.2c rate.
We also exceed 77F since we are in the tropics.

So we don't follow the recommendations exactly, but we do try really hard to charge them as best as possible with what we have.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Since the thread is talking about FF Oasis, here is what they say:
https://oceanplanetenergy.com/wp-con...al-G31-L15.pdf
"For repetitive deep cycling, note that periodic fast charging has a positive impact on
effective battery capacity. If deep cycling, ideally once or twice per week, the batteries
should be charged at a current of 0.4C or more (40 Amps for a 100 Ah battery), or at
least 25A per battery. Note that periodic fast charging can help restore usable capacity
after periods of constant slow charging after deep discharge cycles. For applications
lacking fast charging capability, contact OPE or Firefly USA for alternative restoration
procedures. Due to the low impedance design, Oasis batteries can tolerate in-rush
current levels as high as 3C (300A for a 100Ah battery)."

It appears that if you deeply discharge your battery, the mfg wants a quicker recharge.

We have a big solar and barely meet 0.2c rate.
We also exceed 77F since we are in the tropics.

So we don't follow the recommendations exactly, but we do try really hard to charge them as best as possible with what we have.

yes I read that when I was doing my research on them . I was waiting on someone else to post it as a counter . The big thing is each manufacturer has their specific it if charging regime for their product therefore you need to research your specific battery to know the maintenance for proper care of your investment .

[kenbo]

It appears that if you deeply discharge your battery, the mfg wants a quicker recharge.

We have a big solar and barely meet 0.2c rate.
We also exceed 77F since we are in the tropics.

So we don't follow the recommendations exactly, but we do try really hard to charge them as best as possible with what we have.[/QUOTE]

That's all you can realistically be expected to do. But the devil is always in the details. What constitutes deeply discharged, and if you charge at a slower rate what detriment are we talking about 5% cycle loss or 50% cycle loss. Your not in lab, far from it, enjoy the electrons.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

So we don't follow the recommendations exactly, but we do try really hard to charge them as best as possible with what we have.

No one could ask for more than that.

Originally Posted by john61ct

The **minimum** current charge rate for longevity is 0.2 - .4C for quality deep cycling AGM.

So for a 500Ah bank, 100-200A, minimum.

Obviously, if you aren't concerned about getting maximum longevity,

or simply unable to produce such current levels

then such "fine points" can simply be ignored.

Same with not drawing too high DoD%, or

getting to true 100% Full regularly, or

keeping the bank cool. . .

All these best practices are just goals to be aware of, and then ignore if you so choose.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by kenbo

Sailorboy1 says it best in paraphrase..."treat them as a consumable and enjoy life"

exactly and that's why with my Lfp I set the solar at 14.0 and call it good .And a low voltage load cutout at 12.5.
Do an annual capacity test and when they only have 50ah left I will replace them (100ah bank)

[john61ct]

All these top vendors have well qualified tech support standing by, or I would not recommend them.

If you can't find the specific documentation you're looking for, just give them a call and discuss your case.

It is not uncommon to discover you're talking to a very senior staffer, if not an owner.

[kenbo]

Can someone tell me how you can charge a typical house bank at 0.4C when you're not at a marina or running your genset with installed paralleled chargers or have a long motor leg with a very large school bus alternator strapped to the side of your diesel?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by kenbo

Can someone tell me how you can charge a typical house bank at 0.4C when you're not at a marina or running your genset with installed paralleled chargers or have a long motor leg with a very large school bus alternator strapped to the side of your diesel?

Easy, just add about 2800-3000wp of solar and keep the house bank under 500ah @ 12v

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by john61ct

If you are talking AGM?

Lifeline & Northstar are the makers that specify a 0.2C minimum, Odyssey's is 0.4C. You should be able to google those yourself.

...snip...

I did, I have the Lifeline manual and I cited from it. No point for 0.2C charging needs if not too deep discharged.

Originally Posted by john61ct

All these top vendors have well qualified tech support standing by, or I would not recommend them.

If you can't find the specific documentation you're looking for, just give them a call and discuss your case.

It is not uncommon to discover you're talking to a very senior staffer, if not an owner.

That seems to be a cop-out when trying to get a citation for "facts" stated.

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Easy, just add about 2800-3000wp of solar and keep the house bank under 500ah @ 12v

If only I had thought of that

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Easy, just add about 2800-3000wp of solar and keep the house bank under 500ah @ 12v

You know, i think 3000wp a tad light. You'd have to be absolutely spot on with your orientation, panels squeaky clean and cloudless sky and keep your surface temps down. You may have to up size that array by 20-30% just be be sure your "optimizing".

[barnakiel]

It is a shame you see only 2 years of life from expensive AGM batteries that need to be shipped.


We use plain car batteries and they tend to last about 4 years before I notice early signs of deterioration. However, they are available down the road anywhere we stop. They also seem about 25% of Firefly prices.


If you are headed for SoPac, maybe some earlier and more available technology is a better choice. SoPac places at times do not even have fresh water supply, let alone heavy items that cost $$ in shipment.


You can always return to lithium when you are back in US or AUS or EU.



Cheers,
b.