Firefly Voltages to SOC

[missourisailor]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I think the new from-India direct sales guy is trying to bypass Bruce's dealer network.

As I said, for support and warranty issues I would only deal with the latter.

India was by-passing Peoria.
All warranty claims go through Peoria for at least US customers.

[john61ct]

I really hope Bruce & co will stay in the loop, as long as you buy from them.

[missourisailor]

Just to keep things factual.

A google search will bring up several Firefly distributors.
Some have a limited numbers in stock.

[billknny]

We got ours from Coastal Climate Control in Annapolis, one of the official dealers. They were ordered in August, delivered in December.

I think the answer about how many batteries are in Peoria is: NONE, except for pieces being tested and already committed to customers. Delivery is very much hand to mouth these days. If you order them you are hostage to the production plant's operating rate and yield.

It's only a few weeks, but ours are doing what I had hoped. Their charge acceptance rate is significantly higher than our old bank of Lifeline AGM.

The real reason I invested the extra money in them was so I could run them routinely partially charged and not worry about sulfating the cells. Keeping my charge voltage below acceptance voltage means I can get a LOT more power out of my solar panels and into the batteries. More solar power means less genset time. Less genset time, means a happier sailor. Since sulfation is a long term problem, only time will tell if that strategy is correct.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by kryg

Hi I have been looking into Firefly batteries, as well, they are made in India. Frankly, I thought they were made originally in the US. here is a copy of an email I received from the manufactuer & their email address is; <info@fireflyenergy.com> I'm considering changing my AGM 700 amps to fireflys. but would like more feed back from Cruisers forum as to the battery performace, before I make the purchase.

"These carbon foam batteries are only made in india, the USA does not make batteries for commercial sales.
Firefly India Is the only manufacturing unit in the world to produce Microcell carbon foam batteries with state of the art machineries, our installed capacity is 300000 Kwh per annum which can be increased to 1000000 Kwh per annum. Firefly India is also an ISO 9001 company. WE can assure you the batteries produced in india are of best quality.

Please let me know if you need any further information.

Thanks & Regards,

Jinal Shah.


Warm Regards, Firefly Battery "

This is true - I was shocked to see that the batteries were made in India as I assumed they were made in the USA.

Even though we have a SmartGauge is I want to have a second frame of reference. Mainesail did a test where he went through the SOC to voltage under load for another set of batteries. I was wondering if someone had done something similar. I abused the heck out of my old batteries - I had zero idea of how to take care of the batts - and I want to make sure I baby these batteries as best I can.

The firefly battery manual states that they do not require a float charge but if we need to set one that it should be at or below 13.2, so I have mine set at 13.10 just to be sure.

[missourisailor]

Originally Posted by zboss

Even though we have a SmartGauge is I want to have a second frame of reference. Mainesail did a test where he went through the SOC to voltage under load for another set of batteries. I was wondering if someone had done something similar. I abused the heck out of my old batteries - I had zero idea of how to take care of the batts - and I want to make sure I baby these batteries as best I can.

Bill Ellison, of Panbo fame, installed firefly's on his trawler and made a write up about it.
Also used the SmartGauge.

Here is a link to his write up.

https://www.panbo.com/archives/2016/...e_details.html

[OceanPlanet]

Originally Posted by zboss

Hi All,

We recently installed 330Ah of Firefly batteries. Following up on an article by Mainesail about how those charts so common on the internet that list a % SOC and a matching voltage are not accurate while the battery is in discharge mode.

Does anyone have any idea what the actual SOC to voltages should be for firefly batteries, while in discharge...

Here is some data...see attached.

[OceanPlanet]

Originally Posted by zboss

This is true - I was shocked to see that the batteries were made in India as I assumed they were made in the USA.

Even though we have a SmartGauge is I want to have a second frame of reference. Mainesail did a test where he went through the SOC to voltage under load for another set of batteries. I was wondering if someone had done something similar. I abused the heck out of my old batteries - I had zero idea of how to take care of the batts - and I want to make sure I baby these batteries as best I can.

The firefly battery manual states that they do not require a float charge but if we need to set one that it should be at or below 13.2, so I have mine set at 13.10 just to be sure.

They WERE made in Peoria, however mfg has been moved to a new bigger plant in India. They are STILL way behind (we now have over 1000 on backorder to our regional distributors (FL: Emarine, MD: Coastal Climate Control, RI: Cay Electronics, NE: OPE, Seattle/NW: BRJ Solutions, BC Canada: Pacific Yacht Systems....etc.).

NOTE! FF has changed the desired float voltage (IF they must be floated, preferably they are simply cycled) from the former 13.2V up to 13.4-13.5V

[OceanPlanet]

Originally Posted by kryg

Hi I have been looking into Firefly batteries, as well, they are made in India. Frankly, I thought they were made originally in the US. here is a copy of an email I received from the manufactuer & their email address is; <info@fireflyenergy.com> I'm considering changing my AGM 700 amps to fireflys. but would like more feed back from Cruisers forum as to the battery performace, before I make the purchase.

"These carbon foam batteries are only made in india, the USA does not make batteries for commercial sales.
Firefly India Is the only manufacturing unit in the world to produce Microcell carbon foam batteries with state of the art machineries, our installed capacity is 300000 Kwh per annum which can be increased to 1000000 Kwh per annum. Firefly India is also an ISO 9001 company. WE can assure you the batteries produced in india are of best quality.

Please let me know if you need any further information.

Thanks & Regards,

Jinal Shah.


Warm Regards, Firefly Battery "

We are in communication with Jinal often...and hopefully they will come through with their promised of increased production. They had some hiccups however are hopefully back on track for 2018. They do have a lot of catching up to do....we have over 1000 on back order.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by zboss

Hi All,

We recently installed 330Ah of Firefly batteries. Following up on an article by Mainesail about how those charts so common on the internet that list a % SOC and a matching voltage are not accurate while the battery is in discharge mode.

Does anyone have any idea what the actual SOC to voltages should be for firefly batteries, while in discharge...

At a typical "house load" (about .02C or 10A for a 400Ah bank) a Firefly will cross the 50% SOC mark at approx 12.27V. At the 20 hour rate at about 12.23V..

[john61ct]

A low float say 13.2V is still IMO better for longevity than 13.4 assuming you can customize the setpoint.

But best is "just stop", like LFP.

But in storage of course guard against self-discharge.

[OceanPlanet]

Originally Posted by john61ct

A low float say 13.2V is still IMO better for longevity than 13.4 assuming you can customize the setpoint.

But best is "just stop", like LFP.

But in storage of course guard against self-discharge.

Although... don't forget that the FF is ok to leave without any float at all due to the sulfation resistance. Even for storage (unless there's a load) just letting them sit after a full charge is supposedly better than floating.

Anyhow, when the FF engineer had us raise up the desired float, he had some sort of technical thing about 13.2 being "too close to the resting voltage" and possibly causing some sort of minor issue over time. Sorry that I can't remember exactly what it was...might have been passivation.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by OceanPlanet

leave without any float at all

yes that's what I meant by "just stop", isolate from charge sources once Full as per endAmps.

And yes for storage I understood periodic absorb cycle to counter self-discharge is better than continuous float.

[zboss]

The manual for firefly says that you should set your "return to bulk" at 12.00 volts and that float can be detrimental but as far as I know I can't turn off float on any of my charge sources (balmar 614, victron solar, wind gen).

Does it make sense to set controllers to a very low float voltage, (something under 12.00 volts) so that it never floats anywhere near the 13.2 and instead just cycles between the "return to bulk" (12.00) and bulk?

What about the wind gen... should that be set to 14.4 volts or the float voltage? A wind generator going 24 hours for weeks on end, like we see in the bahamas, would be a source considered "charging the battery for an extended period of time" according to the manual. I only have an option of setting the target voltage and peak Amps on the controller.

[OceanPlanet]

Originally Posted by zboss

The manual for firefly says that you should set your "return to bulk" at 12.00 volts and that float can be detrimental but as far as I know I can't turn off float on any of my charge sources (balmar 614, victron solar, wind gen).

Does it make sense to set controllers to a very low float voltage, (something under 12.00 volts) so that it never floats anywhere near the 13.2 and instead just cycles between the "return to bulk" (12.00) and bulk?

What about the wind gen... should that be set to 14.4 volts or the float voltage? A wind generator going 24 hours for weeks on end, like we see in the bahamas, would be a source considered "charging the battery for an extended period of time" according to the manual. I only have an option of setting the target voltage and peak Amps on the controller.

The "reset to bulk" could be anywhere around 12 to 12.4v. if the loads are low or none, then even @ 12.5 it would be a long time before anything would happen (which is fine).

Yes with the Float voltage: if low or no loads, if you set a Float under 12.6 or so then those sources will essentially do nothing, they'll just sit and wait for the voltage to come down.

Windgen controllers are a tough one. If set too high and no loads then will eventually overcharge. If too low then wind up not getting the benefit of the windgen at all. I'd say go for the Float of 13.4 to 13.5.