Fisher Panda 4800i - need help coming up with plan

[fredct]

DirtPete, yes, something like that happened but I do not think that the water sat there for long. Perhaps a few days (of course it does not take long).


I have an endoscope so there's that!


thanks for all the help.

[Kazamaran]

Hmmmmm……. Might be easier than you think. Take the injectors out, spin the engine until all water has left stadium, check your dip stick to make sure water has not entered the block somehow, change the oil, check your primary fuel filter and make sure it’s clear, ensure you have fuel flow at the rail, charge the fuel rail and bleed it, crank that baby up. Go have a beer. I’d try this before your start tearing into it. If that doesn’t work, then check the compression before you do anything else. One step at a time. Diesels are straight forward creatures. We generally over complicate things. If it cranks up and then dies within a minute or won’t power up, it’s generally air in the system or a fuel constriction. Good luck…

[DirtPete]

Originally Posted by Kazamaran

Hmmmmm……. Might be easier than you think. Take the injectors out, spin the engine until all water has left stadium, check your dip stick to make sure water has not entered the block somehow, change the oil, check your primary fuel filter and make sure it’s clear, ensure you have fuel flow at the rail, charge the fuel rail and bleed it, crank that baby up. Go have a beer. I’d try this before your start tearing into it. If that doesn’t work, then check the compression before you do anything else. One step at a time. Diesels are straight forward creatures. We generally over complicate things. If it cranks up and then dies within a minute or won’t power up, it’s generally air in the system or a fuel constriction. Good luck…

Respectfully, read the whole thread. That is far too much rework for these little things.

[fredct]

Thanks to all so far. I will do the actual work early Feb.



Full background: boat was on hard for 2 years when we bought her. F/P was "serviced" on the hard (oil change, impeller) but never turned on.



When she was put in the water, the technician had the water on. The engine turned over but never started. It's been like that ever since. Water was shutoff and removed best we could (per thread).



I realize this is a small engine but replacing it is expensive and there is the issue of the size.


Wish me lot. i will reread when i am ready to do the work. I am reseaching the proper clearances at the moment.

[skipperpete]

The valve clearance is .20mm and I’m fairly sure you have a decompression device somewhere....either on the rocker cover or at the base of the pushrod tube.... initially I thought it possible that it was engaged hence no start but I remembered that it was automatic and returned to the run position after a couple of turns. You also have a cold start device, old engines had an oil injection cup on the intake manifold but your one more likely has an excess fuel device on or near the injector pump. I have to admit that I really don’t like these little screaming Fischer Panda 2 pole gensets , but best of luck with getting her going!

[fredct]

SkipperPete, neither do i but it was free to me and the alternative is a lot of $, possibly a brand change with all that it implies. I will take my chance, give it 20 hours (2 of us) and see what happens. The new F/P with Yanmar are bigger so not an easy install.

[nm55raven]

Well I weigh in after 6 years of hands on triage on a 4800 panda .
I cannot count the times I swore I’d pitch it overboard rather than triage again.
Without digressing into the nitty gritty blow by blow of the myriad of design flaws and idiosyncrasies;
I strongly suggest you remove the panda straight away and acquire another brand of genset from the get go.
No amount of care and rebuilding will make the Panda comply.
It will always be marginally reliable and very frustrating.

That said I was able to milk another 500 hours out of mine on the ship .
It was the second genset and I used it sparingly but still wished I had replaced it first off.

Good luck

[fredct]

I would love to get 500 hours. Your comments well noted and the mesh with what I read elsewhere. I do not have the budget this summer for that upgrade but we may need to go there based on your feedback.

[Cpt Mark]

Diesels require fuel, air, compression and timing. That's it. Chances of timing being off are negligible at best unless the PO was in there monkeying around with stuff they shouldn't have.

My small diesel instructor listed these 3 things a the most likely culprits:
1. FUEL. Check to see fuel is getting in there and enough. If that is ok, go to 2.

2. FUEL. Repeat step 1. If that fails...

3. FUEL. Repeat step 1 again.

You have fuel at the injectors. Good. Do you also have tiny air bubbles? Any air bubbles is not good. Check all connections of the fuel system for leaks.

It's a bit messy but pull an injector out and hold up some cardboard and crank the engine over. Is the spray pattern even? Same on all cylinders? Your injectors may need servicing.

But before you go to all this trouble I'd suggest you make sure your battery (s) for starting are fully charged and can spin the engine freely for 30 seconds at a time, a bunch of times. Do you have an air filter? If so, is it plugged? Remove it. Spray WD 40 directly into the air intake while cranking the engine. Does it start? You can run a diesel on WD 40 squirts all day long. See if you can start it this way before tearing into it.

I had a Perkins 4-107 which were notorious for getting salt water in the exhaust valve. Happened. Engine corroded and frozen. Poured Kroil in the cylinders (removed injectors) for a week. Then using a big breaker bar tried to rock the engine back and forth to free the cylinder. A week later it finally broke free and the engine ran fine. These little engines are tough. Good luck

[nofacey]

Originally Posted by fredct

I would love to get 500 hours. Your comments well noted and the mesh with what I read elsewhere. I do not have the budget this summer for that upgrade but we may need to go there based on your feedback.

Careful how much you bury into this genset - so easy to spend $$ fast. I’m with the “ toss it now” group

Why do you need ithe genset this season? Could you do it with solar? Way better place to put $$

[DirtPete]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Diesels require fuel, air, compression and timing. That's it. Chances of timing being off are negligible at best unless the PO was in there monkeying around with stuff they shouldn't have.

My small diesel instructor listed these 3 things a the most likely culprits:
1. FUEL. Check to see fuel is getting in there and enough. If that is ok, go to 2.

2. FUEL. Repeat step 1. If that fails...

3. FUEL. Repeat step 1 again.

You have fuel at the injectors. Good. Do you also have tiny air bubbles? Any air bubbles is not good. Check all connections of the fuel system for leaks.

It's a bit messy but pull an injector out and hold up some cardboard and crank the engine over. Is the spray pattern even? Same on all cylinders? Your injectors may need servicing.

But before you go to all this trouble I'd suggest you make sure your battery (s) for starting are fully charged and can spin the engine freely for 30 seconds at a time, a bunch of times. Do you have an air filter? If so, is it plugged? Remove it. Spray WD 40 directly into the air intake while cranking the engine. Does it start? You can run a diesel on WD 40 squirts all day long. See if you can start it this way before tearing into it.

I had a Perkins 4-107 which were notorious for getting salt water in the exhaust valve. Happened. Engine corroded and frozen. Poured Kroil in the cylinders (removed injectors) for a week. Then using a big breaker bar tried to rock the engine back and forth to free the cylinder. A week later it finally broke free and the engine ran fine. These little engines are tough. Good luck

All of this is good advice, for diesels in general. I have had too many fights with these little guys to not immediately check the valves.

If I could pin a PSA on every boat forum I would. These things love to waste customer money and mechanic time by going through the "standard procedure" with a hard starting diesel....thats why these things are evil.

[Sailorichiban]

My experience with a fisher panda;
To the best of my recollection
Maintained by professional for two years , was not such a good idea. Resulting in a no start situation.
Then worked with a professional ( not the same one) became operational again.
Gained a lot of personal experience with the vile machine.
Learned how to disassemble and reassemble. Bought numerous pieces, including pistons and head and many others.
End result; in service around half the appropriate hours. Upside, I learned a lot, although I could have spent those hours of schooling much more wisely.
Conclusion; a clever design with many bells and whistles, very small and compact with high output but with a tendency to failure in many possible ways.
Happiest memory; making a nice space in my engine room by means of removing it.
Good luck to all

[skipperpete]

And yet despite our negative experiences with the noisy little suppository, sure as hell someone will post a story about years of quiet reliable service from their own Fischer Panda…. Still happily running at 3,000 hrs.

[geozeck]

The happiest day of my boating life was when I got rid of my Fisher Panda 7k and replaced it with a Northern Lights.

[At Peace]

Originally Posted by fredct

My vessel has a F/P 4800i generator with about 200 hours on it. It won't start (never did since I bought vessel in July).



Did a ton of troubleshooting and concluded that likely root cause was corrosion on exhaust side, causing lack of compression and so no ignition.



Farymann is RIP so components hard to find. I bought seals and rings from F/P USA. In other words, I bought what I could find.


Labor hard to come by so I am on my own. I have never worked on diesels but I have a mechanically inclined friend. We have the Farymann manual for this particular model.


Should I attempt to remove the engine and repair in my shop? How would I test it? Or should I take apart the head, repair and reinstall in situ?


Or should I just buy a replacement unit, either from F/P or from other brand? Thanks in advance.

Check out this recent YouTube video. Worth a try anyway.

https://youtu.be/vpME7N3L-8k?si=J7a6LvbwRP7IWUBs