gels or lithium for new

[CaptainRivet]

First major points not mentioned till now:
- Gel have Puekert effect and will suffer in big loads from eg big inverters
- charge efficency of gel (lead) is bad means they need a lot more time to recharge then LFP, which means you need to run gen more often.
- weight: 5 Gel weight 150-300kg depending on size, LFP a 1/3 of it and DOD 80% means your AH capacity can be half of it. Cats are weight senstive and payload wirh all lifeaboard gear mostly tight, saving 150kg+ in unnecessary weight at the end of the sugar scoops (where moat battery sit) also reduces hobby horsing of the cat.

What i would do:
- get it delivered with Gel, if possible order a 24V system
- make sure all electronics installed by factory has a Lithium profile, upgrade to biggest inverter/charger they offer
- stay away from factory 230V AC system, retrofit 12/24V aircon as this is the power honk that much more efficent. Forget running 230V AC factory from any bank gel or LFP but the 12/24V aircon its possible with LFP and enough solar.
- get 2 big alternators additionally for your engines and skip the generator. Upgrade engine to biggest they offer.
- mount as much solar as you can fit, this is quite, cheapest, maintenance free energy you can get. You should be able to stick 2500-3000W of solar on a 44ft. Use bifacial solar panels wherever they fit, a gamechanger as less prone to shading and there backside deliver solar too. 2,5kw will get you through without gen. The big alternators charge your bank everytime you run the engine
- as others suggested then do 1 season with the gel to see your real power needs. Your engine with big alternator will run more often but thats ok. Then retrofit LFP in capacity you need. I would assume 1000AH is about what you need.
- plan electric galley, get rid of gas. Yes that need bigger inverters. But the side effect of electric galley is you have so much inverter power that you can buy all in cheap 120/230V household appliances compared to expensive 12V marine appliances...starting eg with a big 120/230V freezer that cost you 500 bucks while the comparable marine 12V is 5000bucks.

[CaptainRivet]

First major points not mentioned till now:
- Gel have Puekert effect and will suffer in big loads from eg big inverters
- charge efficency of gel (lead) is bad means they need a lot more time to recharge then LFP, which means you need to run gen more often.
- weight: 5 Gel weight 150-300kg depending on size, LFP a 1/3 of it and DOD 80% means your AH capacity can be half of it.

What i would do:
- get it delivered with Gel, if possible order a 24V system
- make sure all electronics installed by factory has a Lithium profile, upgrade to biggest inverter/charger they offer
- stay away from factory 230V AC system, retrofit 12/24V aircon as this is the power honk that much more efficent.
- get 2 big alternators for your engine and skip the generator.
- mount as much solar as you can fit, this is quite, cheapest, maintenance free energy you can get. You should be able to stick 2500-3000W of solar on a 44ft. Use bifacial solar panels wherever they fit, a gamechanger as less prone to shading and there backside deliver solar too. 2,5kw will get you through without gen. The big alternators charge your bank.
- as others suggested then do 1 season with the gel to see your real power needs. Your engine with big alternator will run more often but thats ok. Then retrofit LFP in capacity you need. I would assume 1000AH is about what you need.
- plan electric galley, get rid of gas. Yes that need bigger inverters. But the side effect of electric galley is you have so much inverter power that you can buy all in cheap 120/230V household appliances compared to expensive 12V marine appliances...starting eg with a big 120/230V freezer that cost you 500 bucks while the comparable marine 12V is 5000bucks.and this you get virtually everywhere in the world.

[Simi 60]

If it is actually a new build get the price adjusted
Gel out and price credited

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

If it is actually a new build get the price adjusted
Gel out and price credited

Factory will not deliver LFP, its most likely not certified. As he wrote delivering dealer is retrofitting that after delivery, its not a factory option where you can do that, nautitech is not offering that.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by dhenline

thank you for the reply. I honestly dont know the amp hours of each. I will find out that information.
I was leaning towards just using the gel batteries for a a couple of years. but i will find that information out.
MY thought was that given, we will likely run the generator most nights ( I love AC and the extra cost is not a problem) that the capacity of the batteries will not be as important. Charging at night via generator and charging in the Day via the solar.
I will find out that info and repost

Totally wrong thought and you will hate to hear the whole time the noise of the gnerator and if it breaks, which they tend to do often, you have nothing.
1600W with gel and 230V factory aircon gets you nowhere.
Read my post above 3kw solar, 2x 140-200A alternators on each engine with wakespeed regulator, no gen, 12/24V aircon and min 1000AH LFP is the receipt for quite, trouble free and quite affordable comfortable lifeaboard. Get a portable 2kw honda gen as 3rd backup. First is solar, 2nd 2x140-200A engine and 3rd Honda 2kw via shorepower charger.

I would get a DIY bank of 8x700AH Winston with Tao,REC or X2 BMS but don't know if you are a DIyer who can do that or find an installer whonis willing to do it.

[SV Confianza]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Totally wrong thought and you will hate to hear the whole time the noise of the gnerator and if it breaks, which they tend to do often, you have nothing.
1600W with gel and 230V factory aircon gets you nowhere.
Read my post above 3kw solar, 2x 140-200A alternators on each engine with wakespeed regulator, no gen, 12/24V aircon and min 1000AH LFP is the receipt for quite, trouble free and quite affordable comfortable lifeaboard. Get a portable 2kw honda gen as 3rd backup. First is solar, 2nd 2x140-200A engine and 3rd Honda 2kw via shorepower charger.

I would get a DIY bank of 8x700AH Winston with Tao,REC or X2 BMS but don't know if you are a DIyer who can do that or find an installer whonis willing to do it.

Why bother with the generator? Already have 3 sources. Solar, and two alternators. I’m not saying it’s wrong just wondering how often it would be used if ever.

For the regulators, I have two wakespeed, but I’ve been recommending the balmars instead just because they’re so much simpler and all that 99% of people would need.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by SV Confianza

For the regulators, I have two wakespeed, but I’ve been recommending the balmars instead just because they’re so much simpler and all that 99% of people would need.

Seems the new Wakespeed is programmed via phone app

Note there are no DIP switches in this model. Programming is via the Smartphone app or a serial connection to the controller itself by removing the cover and plugging into the USB connection inside.

https://www.safiery.com/WS500-altern...bus-controller

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by SV Confianza

Why bother with the generator? Already have 3 sources. Solar, and two alternators. I’m not saying it’s wrong just wondering how often it would be used if ever.

For the regulators, I have two wakespeed, but I’ve been recommending the balmars instead just because they’re so much simpler and all that 99% of people would need.

A portable gas genny because its much more efficent then running your diesel engines. To top up yes use your engines. But in spring or autum the solar energy is sometimes not enough, a week really bad weather and need charging a 1000AH bank thats down to 20%SoC to 100 is much faster, quiter and much more efficent via the portable gen. I need mine 3-5times a year. Also as backup when the alternator regulator or DC2DC charger breaks. That saved our ass on the last ocean crossing, the breaker of the charge bus on.my buddies mono was faulty so we couldn't charge the LFP house. So i wired the output of the multi shorepower charge straight to the LFP bank and charged via the portable honda gen. We were searching 2 days till we found the issue...without the honda we would have been in real trouble.

[SV Confianza]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

A portable gas genny because its much more efficent then running your diesel engines. To top up yes use your engines. But in spring or autum the solar energy is sometimes not enough, a week really bad weather and need charging a 1000AH bank thats down to 20%SoC to 100 is much faster, quiter and much more efficent via the portable gen. I need mine 3-5times a year. Also as backup when the alternator regulator or DC2DC charger breaks. That saved our ass on the last ocean crossing, the breaker of the charge bus on.my buddies mono was faulty so we couldn't charge the LFP house. So i wired the output of the multi shorepower charge straight to the LFP bank and charged via the portable honda gen. We were searching 2 days till we found the issue...without the honda we would have been in real trouble.

Yeah that makes sense. We have both alternators set up to charge the house bank, and then a relay to parallel the starter bats to top them off when charging the house. I fried the relays once and just used an automotive battery charger plugged into the house to keep the starter batteries topped off until I could fix.

Haven’t really ran into too many issues, but if I was doing more ocean crossings, there’s a number of redundancies that I’m looking to add. I’ll put the Honda gen on this list.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by SV Confianza

Why bother with the generator? Already have 3 sources. Solar, and two alternators. I’m not saying it’s wrong just wondering how often it would be used if ever.

For the regulators, I have two wakespeed, but I’ve been recommending the balmars instead just because they’re so much simpler and all that 99% of people would need.

The wakespeeds integrate better and easier with the BMS i recommended. 2nd the wakespeed is fully pogrammable eg reduce charge to 5% above 2500RPM because if you go full WOT you are normally in emergency sitiation and need all power you have. And a 160A sucks easy 8hp away...too much forvthe undermotorized mass production cats as even the optional engine upgrade is hardly coping in really strong winds...
Just one of many features of wakespeed compared to balmar.

[SV Confianza]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Seems the new Wakespeed is programmed via phone app
https://www.safiery.com/WS500-altern...bus-controller

The old ones can be programmed with the phone app as well. I’ve never used the dip switches.

The phone app is still complex for most users, and its monitoring is very limited. I use Ogm energy WS500 config tool instead.

[SV Confianza]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

The wakespeeds integrate better and easier with the BMS i recommended. 2nd the wakespeed is fully pogrammable eg reduce charge to 5% above 2500RPM because if you go full WOT you are normally in emergency sitiation and need all power you have. And a 160A sucks easy 8hp away...too much forvthe undermotorized mass production cats as even the optional engine upgrade is hardly coping in really strong winds...
Just one of many features of wakespeed compared to balmar.

Hmm I never thought of doing that. I only have it set to cut production on low rpms. I love the idea of reducing if trying to book it towards or away from something.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by SV Confianza

Hmm I never thought of doing that. I only have it set to cut production on low rpms. I love the idea of reducing if trying to book it towards or away from something.

Thanks for the suggestion!

You are welcome.
Thats the real beauty of wakespeed.

My personal opinion. On the newer D1 and D2 and small Yanmar you have the Mitzi 115A alternator from OEM. That can deliver with the Nordkyn VSR regulator 80A without modifying anything but have a fully regulated alt. You don't get in trouble with Volvo D+. With a 2nd alternator kit you can add a 2nd 115A Mitzi producing another 80A with the same and only one VSR regulator. So you have 160A charge for 2000Euro, the redudancy of 2 alternators, no trouble with Volvo D+.
If you have a kat just have that twice, 2x160A is huge. No reason to get Balmar or wakespeed regulator, its more expensive for less output and more trouble.

But if you go bigger or different engine with bad alternator then get the best suiting balmar and wakespeed regulator as the 300 bucks more for the flexiblity, features and perfect adaption is well spend money even you think a simpler and chesper balmar regulator will do it.
A your electrical system will grow and adapt over time, the engine and alternator will stay the same so wakespeed is better and faster adapted to eg optimse output of Alternator for more flexible parameter.