GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Rex Delay

Is it acceptable to solder the ends of the multi strand wire rather than use captive rings? It seems that the rings are the main problem I am having.

No.

Have you tried a different brand of GFCI receptacle?

As someone else mentioned, one GFCI receptacle can protect an entire circuit if you install it as the first in a string of receptacles.

As far as the box being too small, I hesitate a bit to suggest this because you have to understand what you're doing, but depending on how the box was installed, you may be able to replace it with a deeper box. I had to do this to install one of the new receptacles with built in USB charging jacks. Another example of a fifteen minute job that takes two hours.


BTW: The box extenders that go on the front of a box are meant for use when the box is mounted too far in from the surface (drywall, paneling, etc. They may make the box deeper but the will stick out past the surface and look pretty silly. Any home center or electrical supply store will have boxes in several different depths. The extra depth is in the back.

[Cadence]

One thing I may have missed? Insure you have a good ground or a GFI is useless.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Cadence

One thing I may have missed? Insure you have a good ground or a GFI is useless.

A GFCI will work without a ground. They operate on the difference between hot and neutral. GFCI's are allowed instead of a ground on a 2 wire system.

[dmalcol1]

If you can find conveniant location to install first GFI receptical all downstream recepticals will be protected by first gfi receptical.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

A GFCI will work without a ground. They operate on the difference between hot and neutral. GFCI's are allowed instead of a ground on a 2 wire system.

Interesting thanks. Probably well worth while on a boat since supplying a good ground can be suspect. What can you tell me about AFCI/GFCI ?

[jeepbluetj]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Interesting thanks. Probably well worth while on a boat since supplying a good ground can be suspect. What can you tell me about AFCI/GFCI ?

It's one of the great reasons to have a GFCI. Any current goes 'somewhere else' it pops. Since that somewhere else may be through you, that's a good thing. Only way to upgrade 2-wire systems without pulling a real ground wire. It's fine to stick a GFCI as the first outlet and only run hot/neutral down the line (U.S. 110v)

Almost every circuit in my house is on a GFCI - when the kids were little I felt it added lots of safety. Every outlet is behind one too. (yup. Both circuits... )

AFCI is an arc detector. Since arcs can light fires an AFCI prevents that.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Rex Delay

I have been ordered by my insurance company to install GFCI in galley and head. Just tried in the galley and failed. There is just not enough room in the electrical box for the outlet and wires. Wires are supposed to be attached to captive rings on the plug but this cannot work due to space limitations. The ring connectors stick out the side and break off when trying to bend flat to go in the box. One option is to solder the ends of the multi strand wire and install as per house wiring. Is this acceptable practice?

Another option would to put a master Ground Fault breaker on the 110 volt system but how and where?

First, please be advised that a GFCI is not a breaker (current limiting device). It opens the circuit on a ground fault. It will not open the circuit on excess current from line to neutral. (The later is what a fuse or breaker is for.)

Despite some comments, installing an ELCI does not preclude the need for GFCI receptacles as specified. The ELCI give whole boat protection, but for a higher ground fault current than a GFCI.

Soldering stranded wires and inserting into a "gripping" terminal of a GFCI is our standard practice. If it is just a screw terminal, then a ring or flanged spade should be used to be compliant. If there is no room for the terminals, perhaps you need a deeper box? If the box is metal, this is a great opportunity to change it out for a water-tight plastic box.

[Rex Delay]

I finally finished it. Used a Leviton slimline GFI as it is the thinnest I could find. Had to remove all excess wiring from the box as there was no room and then soldered the wire ends with just less than 2" sticking out of the box and then crammed it all in and it just fit. Insurance company now happy. Thank you all.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

It's one of the great reasons to have a GFCI. Any current goes 'somewhere else' it pops. Since that somewhere else may be through you, that's a good thing. Only way to upgrade 2-wire systems without pulling a real ground wire. It's fine to stick a GFCI as the first outlet and only run hot/neutral down the line (U.S. 110v)

Almost every circuit in my house is on a GFCI - when the kids were little I felt it added lots of safety. Every outlet is behind one too. (yup. Both circuits... )

AFCI is an arc detector. Since arcs can light fires an AFCI prevents that.

Guess I'm lucky. I just told the kids not to stick things in the plugs.

Must have worked. The eldest mad 56.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Cadence

One thing I may have missed? Insure you have a good ground or a GFI is useless.

Incorrect, a GFCI works without reference to ground at all. They are equipped with a current sensor for both line and neutral. If there is a difference beyond the setpoint, the GFCI trips, disconnecting the receptacle from power.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Incorrect, a GFCI works without reference to ground at all. They are equipped with a current sensor for both line and neutral. If there is a difference beyond the setpoint, the GFCI trips, disconnecting the receptacle from power.

Someone already mentioned the GFCI and no ground required. Interesting since sometimes a ground is questionable either the vessel's or the marina's.

[Colin A]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

First, please be advised that a GFCI is not a breaker (current limiting device). It opens the circuit on a ground fault. It will not open the circuit on excess current from line to neutral. (The later is what a fuse or breaker is for.)

Despite some comments, installing an ELCI does not preclude the need for GFCI receptacles as specified. The ELCI give whole boat protection, but for a higher ground fault current than a GFCI.

Soldering stranded wires and inserting into a "gripping" terminal of a GFCI is our standard practice. If it is just a screw terminal, then a ring or flanged spade should be used to be compliant. If there is no room for the terminals, perhaps you need a deeper box? If the box is metal, this is a great opportunity to change it out for a water-tight plastic box.

Rod,
They do make some combination units. The most common in the marine market is the one made by Carling. The GFCI unit is added onto the breaker and trips the breaker when the leakage is detected, but it will also trip on over current. It's basically an ELCI turned down to the GFCI ma level. They are much more expensive then GFCI outlet thou and take an extra breaker space.
http://www.carlingtech.com/sites/def...CI_Catalog.pdf

The easiest and least expensive is to add a GFCI outlet upstream of the other outlets. If all else fails thou you could try one of the Inline GFCI modules I have seen them on a few production boats but they are expensive. http://www.gfcistore.com/30-amp-permanent-gfcis.html