Golf cart batteries

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

Are you positive they wouldn't fit? I put 2 of the Penn GC15 230AH 6v batteries in my 4d boxes.

No matter what you say there's always one in every crowd.

Hi Don. Guess you're home and back in action.

The problem with T-105's is the height. My battery box is under the companionway stairs and and part of the cabinetwork in the galley. It would be a significant job to modify. I have a max height of a little over 9" and the spec sheet on the Trojan web site says they are 10 11/16" high.

Just in case they fudged that spec a little why don't you run down to your boat and measure it for me.

Or since it's winter up there and you aren't sailing you're welcome to come down and get a little practice in boat repair. I wouldn't charge you a thing for the lessons.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Hi Don. Guess you're home and back in action.


Or since it's winter up there and you aren't sailing you're welcome to come down and get a little practice in boat repair. I wouldn't charge you a thing for the lessons.

I've been home and back to work for over 2 weeks. Was only out 3 days and that included a weekend.

I have my own items to do on my boat and am waiting for warm weather of above freezing to go do some of it. I expect I will be in in the water again before you!

Far as the batteries go, yes the 6V are taller. But they fit in existing 4D boxes that are on my boat (just).

Sorry the builder of your boat was short sighted and placed the batteries in a bad location with no room to for expansion.

[foggysail]

Yes............my old thread but an update!

Things do not look well for my East Penns purchased back in July 12, almost 5 years ago to the day with 5 seasons use on them. I thought they would last forever until they ......well, at least I think they did not. I checked the water levels today and just maybe I ran them too low or have put them through too many deep cycles. Anyway, one pair is in my hydrometer's red, the other in blue but at least near the green.

Sure, my old solar panels with a PWM (ProStar 30) seemed to do a decent job equalizing but who knows. Tonight as I sit before this old battered, still functioning Dell D830 laptop, my Xantrex XC5012 is equalizing both banks, one at a time. If by morning I see no improvement, time to go hunting again.

Sams still offers East Penn 230AH golf carts, the same as those I purchased what seems like many years ago. Not so with their cost though. That earlier purchased was easy with an $88 price. Now the price is around $118. That may not seem like a large increase but this time around I intend to increase my banks capacity using 8 batteries, two banks of four. I want to minimize the charge depletion/battery when out on anchor.

Further, I replaced my ProStar with a Victron 150/70 controller. The new controller increased my charging from around 20 amperes (24 was the highest) to just over 33 amperes. Another planned improvement relates to new solar panels that will not get delivered until late September. Those panels are 4 each Canadian 295 watts mono so next season I should be able to really pump amps into the banks.

More later, will tell if any improvements were seen in the batteries or what I have done to replace them.

Foggy

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by skipmac

No matter what you say there's always one in every crowd.

Hi Don. Guess you're home and back in action.

The problem with T-105's is the height. My battery box is under the companionway stairs and and part of the cabinetwork in the galley. It would be a significant job to modify. I have a max height of a little over 9" and the spec sheet on the Trojan web site says they are 10 11/16" high.

Just in case they fudged that spec a little why don't you run down to your boat and measure it for me.

Or since it's winter up there and you aren't sailing you're welcome to come down and get a little practice in boat repair. I wouldn't charge you a thing for the lessons.

Is there any way you can lower the bottom of the battery box?

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

the golf cart batteries sold at sams club are less than $80 each AND are made by east penn (it says so right on the battery). i bought four last year...

I have been running 8 6v GC2 Energizer golf cart batteries from Sams Club as my 48v main propulsion bank for 3 years now and they are holding up fine. 220ah, sweet price. They stopped carrying the Energizers and now have the 215ah Duracell (Penn) for the same price, and I bought 2 of them recently for a backup 12v system for my bilge pumps and nav lights and such. Some cheap batteries suck. Some cheap batteries are pretty good. Especially in the golf cart types. For me, the price was a major factor in the decision to purchase them instead of the 8D 12v batteries I was originally considering. Another was the form factor which was very convenient for my particular installation. These are not necessarily the best for everyone but they seem to be the best for me. No, they don't say "marine" anywhere on the label and they didn't come from Worst Marine or any other yacht chandlery so some folks are gonna hate. But Im okay with grocery store batteries if they do the job for a good price and hold up as well as these seem to do.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Is there any way you can lower the bottom of the battery box?

You replied to a January 27 2013 post

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

I have been running 8 6v GC2 Energizer golf cart batteries from Sams Club as my 48v main propulsion bank for 3 years now and they are holding up fine. 220ah, sweet price. They stopped carrying the Energizers and now have the 215ah Duracell (Penn) for the same price, and I bought 2 of them recently for a backup 12v system for my bilge pumps and nav lights and such. Some cheap batteries suck. Some cheap batteries are pretty good. Especially in the golf cart types. For me, the price was a major factor in the decision to purchase them instead of the 8D 12v batteries I was originally considering. Another was the form factor which was very convenient for my particular installation. These are not necessarily the best for everyone but they seem to be the best for me. No, they don't say "marine" anywhere on the label and they didn't come from Worst Marine or any other yacht chandlery so some folks are gonna hate. But Im okay with grocery store batteries if they do the job for a good price and hold up as well as these seem to do.

Growley-- The only thing I disagree with you about pertains to 8Ds. Yes, I am also cost sensitive, but the weight, weight

East Penn has made changes, I have not followed their nomenclature other than whatever they call their 230AH is now more expensive than the 230AH ones I earlier purchased. I am not dismayed, most things change prices, usually upwards.

Tested the specific gravity again this morning after equalizing both banks twice last night. DEAD

[softdown]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

I have been running 8 6v GC2 Energizer golf cart batteries from Sams Club as my 48v main propulsion bank for 3 years now and they are holding up fine. 220ah, sweet price. They stopped carrying the Energizers and now have the 215ah Duracell (Penn) for the same price, and I bought 2 of them recently for a backup 12v system for my bilge pumps and nav lights and such. Some cheap batteries suck. Some cheap batteries are pretty good. Especially in the golf cart types. For me, the price was a major factor in the decision to purchase them instead of the 8D 12v batteries I was originally considering. Another was the form factor which was very convenient for my particular installation. These are not necessarily the best for everyone but they seem to be the best for me. No, they don't say "marine" anywhere on the label and they didn't come from Worst Marine or any other yacht chandlery so some folks are gonna hate. But Im okay with grocery store batteries if they do the job for a good price and hold up as well as these seem to do.

Marine deep cycle batteries are not true deep cycle batteries like golf cart batteries are. Marine batteries are a compromise between a starter battery and a dedicated deep cycle battery. You made the right choice with the golf cart batteries.

I am not familiar with any significant difference in the quality of golf cart batteries having spent a few years on a solar forum. I suspect that the price competition forces them all to be pretty equal.

[softdown]

Originally Posted by foggysail

Growley-- The only thing I disagree with you about pertains to 8Ds. Yes, I am also cost sensitive, but the weight, weight

East Penn has made changes, I have not followed their nomenclature other than whatever they call their 230AH is now more expensive than the 230AH ones I earlier purchased. I am not dismayed, most things change prices, usually upwards.

Tested the specific gravity again this morning after equalizing both banks twice last night. DEAD

This kind of makes it sound like the equalization procedure killed what was left of your batteries. I am not familiar with equalizing twice in a row.

Regardless, five years is a pretty typical lifespan. Canadians may do better, Floridians will do worse as a rule. Heat is a battery killer....along with several other things.

[GrowleyMonster]

Hey Foggy, what are you using to deliver an equalizing charge? Can you hear the batteries gassing? Toward the end, but before you have backed off the current significantly, you should hear the batter being equalized bubbling merrily away and observe the case getting rather warm but not over 125f or so.

FWIW my equalizing charger and backup bank charger is just a big Variac and a rectifier from an old stick welder, with a couple of meters thrown in for voltage and current. Requires constant monitoring, of course, and high regard to safety. I have never found a smart charger that IMHO does a proper equalization. Most won't deliver high enough voltage.

6v or 8v batteries can also be equalized with an old fashioned 12v transformer type charger, fed by a variac. Same precautions apply as those to the Variac and welding rectifier method. I'm talking about the old dinosaur charger on two wheels like you see at your local garage. A solid state or smart charger will NOT work for this.

With no isolation transformer, it is important to have an ungrounded DC system. A Variac offers zero isolation. A real electrician can probably explain this better than I can.

[sailorboy1]

Just an FYI - at the Trojan recommended absorption voltage my golf cart 6V batteries are gassing enough at the end of charge that I can smell them and a lot of times force the solar into float

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by softdown

This kind of makes it sound like the equalization procedure killed what was left of your batteries. I am not familiar with equalizing twice in a row.

Regardless, five years is a pretty typical lifespan. Canadians may do better, Floridians will do worse as a rule. Heat is a battery killer....along with several other things.

Sure, five years is a respectful life.....no bitch, complaint here. I am just like other folks who don't jump with joy to spend $800 thereabouts for new batteries. And then there is the installation. And $800 is inexpensive compared to what others charge for new batteries. The unit cost was only $84/each plus tax plus about $76 for only returning 4 dead ones while purchasing 8 new. A purchase from West Marine could easily swallow $1250-1300!

But back to equalization. I thought our batteries were doing just fine. Charging cycles seemed normal, panel voltage readings were where one would expect. Now the time arrived to check their water and I found that although the plates were covered, I used 1/2 gallon of distilled water distributed among 4 batteries. That along with age I think was the cause of their failure.

Note--- at NO time did I see hydrogen bubbles coming from the batteries. Equalization did not change the situation and certainly didn't help nor hurt the situation.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Hey Foggy, what are you using to deliver an equalizing charge? Can you hear the batteries gassing? Toward the end, but before you have backed off the current significantly, you should hear the batter being equalized bubbling merrily away and observe the case getting rather warm but not over 125f or so.

FWIW my equalizing charger and backup bank charger is just a big Variac and a rectifier from an old stick welder, with a couple of meters thrown in for voltage and current. Requires constant monitoring, of course, and high regard to safety. I have never found a smart charger that IMHO does a proper equalization. Most won't deliver high enough voltage.

6v or 8v batteries can also be equalized with an old fashioned 12v transformer type charger, fed by a variac. Same precautions apply as those to the Variac and welding rectifier method. I'm talking about the old dinosaur charger on two wheels like you see at your local garage. A solid state or smart charger will NOT work for this.

With no isolation transformer, it is important to have an ungrounded DC system. A Variac offers zero isolation. A real electrician can probably explain this better than I can.

Growley, never thought of that. A variac along with an isolation transformer an a full bridge rectifier certainly would be very stiff and might be able to bring back the dead. There comes a time however, that the collection of all sorts of tools used once or twice in a lifetime becomes too great a burden. Storage is one problem and the other is trying to remember where the heck you last put it among the other stored "tools"....others might call those tools junk.

So for equalization, the only method I had available was a.....got to watch my words..... a Xantrex 5012 battery charger. I am not a fan of Xantrex and will leave it at that.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by foggysail

You replied to a January 27 2013 post

If it didn't occur to him before then, I'm guessing it still hasn't occurred to him.

[softdown]

Originally Posted by foggysail

Sure, five years is a respectful life.....no bitch, complaint here. I am just like other folks who don't jump with joy to spend $800 thereabouts for new batteries. And then there is the installation. And $800 is inexpensive compared to what others charge for new batteries. The unit cost was only $84/each plus tax plus about $76 for only returning 4 dead ones while purchasing 8 new. A purchase from West Marine could easily swallow $1250-1300!

But back to equalization. I thought our batteries were doing just fine. Charging cycles seemed normal, panel voltage readings were where one would expect. Now the time arrived to check their water and I found that although the plates were covered, I used 1/2 gallon of distilled water distributed among 4 batteries. That along with age I think was the cause of their failure.

Note--- at NO time did I see hydrogen bubbles coming from the batteries. Equalization did not change the situation and certainly didn't help nor hurt the situation.

Wondering if you checked SG using water that you had recently poured in.

Low water level shouldn't hurt the battery until plates become exposed for a significant period of time.

I am a "doctor of low water levels". Every time I work with levels, I ruin my clothes.

Love my water miser caps...I have several macgivored solar banks around here. The first 48 volt system I did somewhat meticulously. After that, I started playing around. There are about four tons of various batteries around here. I like to experiment...Plus I built an 8000 foot shop. Tendency to get carried away at times...