Help needed interpreting a wiring diagram.

[GILow]

Darn, I am on dry land right at the moment, this is so frustrating. But I THINK jammer’s description and bglad’s diagram explains something about the behaviour of remote reversing solenoid block I bought. I won’t get to check until tomorrow, but I will report back. Thank you all, again. Terrific stuff.

[GILow]

Ok, so I forgot about this page from the manual.

I am now more confused than before.

[Jammer]

That diagram is for a three-terminal series wound motor as I described upthread. Note that there are two field connections -- F1 and F2 -- and only one armature connection -- A2. Since you have a four-terminal series wound motor, that diagram does not apply to your situation.


The diagram does appear to have the F2 and A2 terminals reversed.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

That diagram is for a three-terminal series wound motor as I described upthread. Note that there are two field connections -- F1 and F2 -- and only one armature connection -- A2. Since you have a four-terminal series wound motor, that diagram does not apply to your situation.


The diagram does appear to have the F2 and A2 terminals reversed.

A little confused here still... given my motor has F1, F2 and A1, and uses the chassis as a nominal “A2”, does that make it a three or four terminal motor?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by GILow

A little confused here still... given my motor has F1, F2 and A1, and uses the chassis as a nominal “A2”, does that make it a three or four terminal motor?

It is a four terminal motor because you previously said:

Originally Posted by GILow

Currently the windlass motor has the positive feed going to F1 and has a heavy duty jumper cable between F2 and A1. Negative is connected to the body of the winch, A2 in this schematic,

and no other type of motor is fed at F1 and has a heavy jumper between F2 and A1.

::shrug:: If you're not sure, it's easy enough to move the jumper temporarily so it goes from F1 to A1, and move the positive feed to F2, and tap the button to see if it goes backwards a few turns. Once you've established that, you can decide on your next step.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

It is a four terminal motor because you previously said:



and no other type of motor is fed at F1 and has a heavy jumper between F2 and A1.

::shrug:: If you're not sure, it's easy enough to move the jumper temporarily so it goes from F1 to A1, and move the positive feed to F2, and tap the button to see if it goes backwards a few turns. Once you've established that, you can decide on your next step.

Ah, right. Well, this has been a learning journey, thank you. I’ll get to trying some stuff tomorrow and report back.

But it does appear that my remote control solenoid will be no use. The remote unit itself should be ok though, and I might be able to kludge something by using the existing double solenoid block (only one of which is in use) in combination with the new block.

If I disappear in a shower of sparks, I got it wrong.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by Telemark43

... and my serious question is simply
Why do you need to motor the anchor down?

Lowering the anchor with the motor takes much less power from the batteries than weighing it. It allows you to control the descent and, if you keep track of time, even how much you've put out so far.
Also, with the right control box (relays), it can be done from the cockpit while keeping the boat pointing where you want it.

My Muir windlass can be wired that way, but only has a foot deck switch for weighing anchor at the moment. I'm planning of putting in a remote control box that would measure the current (power) going to the motor in each direction and can stop the motor if it gets overloaded (current to high) to avoid burning the windings. Such a box could then also keep track of the time and tell you how much rode has been put out or reeled in. Potentially you could just tell it "put out 10 more meters" and it would do that.

For now I use the clutch on the windlass for "free falling" although I never let the clutch out completely but still control the descent rate while standing at the bow.

As Ann has mentioned, free falling can lead to snagging the anchor chain where it enters the hawse pipe.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by hzcruiser

...

My Muir windlass can be wired that way, but only has a foot deck switch for weighing anchor at the moment. I'm planning of putting in a remote control box that would measure the current (power) going to the motor in each direction and can stop the motor if it gets overloaded (current to high) to avoid burning the windings. Such a box could then also keep track of the time and tell you how much rode has been put out or reeled in. Potentially you could just tell it "put out 10 more meters" and it would do that.

For now I use the clutch on the windlass for "free falling" although I never let the clutch out completely but still control the descent rate while standing at the bow.

....

Mine is a Muir too.

I did give some thought to a timer for the descent. I will see how it goes just counting the seconds first, but I think it would be pretty simple to come up with a circuit that lowered a predetermined length of chain. I bet there’s a commercial version out there already.

Aside from a timer, another good way of determining how much chain has been released would be an opto-coupled circuit of some kind that counted the chain links as they went past. But I reckon a timer would be good enough.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

...
::shrug:: If you're not sure, it's easy enough to move the jumper temporarily so it goes from F1 to A1, and move the positive feed to F2, and tap the button to see if it goes backwards a few turns. Once you've established that, you can decide on your next step.

Ok, so I tried it.

First, let me say, these sorts of DC motors are no fun to play with in the confines of a bow locker! Kinda like arc welding with your face in the job.

But, hey presto, it does reverse. Who would have thought it?

So, I wonder if you or anyone can come up with a design that will work with this shiny new solenoid I have in my hand?

Imagine the poles numbered from one to four.

At rest, one is in contact with three and four and two is isolated.

In one direction of activation, one is in contact with three while two is in contact with four.

In the other direction, one is in contact with four and two is in contact with three.

Confusing, sorry, can’t think of a better way of describing it.

I also have the two original separate solenoids that are simply the momentary closed when activated sort, both single circuit.

[Jammer]

1 Armature
2 Battery
3 F1
4 F2


Direction 1
1 armature === 3 F1
2 battery === 4 F2


Direction 2
1 armature === 4 F2
2 battery === 3 F1

[bglad]

Here is a swag using your pole numbers referencing your original drawing:

one=A1
two=(+)
three=F2
four=F1
(-)=A2

Originally Posted by GILow

Ok, so I tried it.

First, let me say, these sorts of DC motors are no fun to play with in the confines of a bow locker! Kinda like arc welding with your face in the job.

But, hey presto, it does reverse. Who would have thought it?

So, I wonder if you or anyone can come up with a design that will work with this shiny new solenoid I have in my hand?

Imagine the poles numbered from one to four.

At rest, one is in contact with three and four and two is isolated.

In one direction of activation, one is in contact with three while two is in contact with four.

In the other direction, one is in contact with four and two is in contact with three.

Confusing, sorry, can’t think of a better way of describing it.

I also have the two original separate solenoids that are simply the momentary closed when activated sort, both single circuit.

[GILow]

I’ll give those a go, thank you both. Fingers crossed!

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by GILow

I’ll give those a go, thank you both. Fingers crossed!

So you have four solenoids/relays or the complete up/down control box for the windlass?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by hzcruiser

So you have four solenoids/relays or the complete up/down control box for the windlass?

I’ve got the two original solenoids plus a new integrated four-pole, three position solenoid.

Trying to carve out some time to see if the suggested wiring solutions above will work.

[hzcruiser]

Yes, just noticed you mentioned you had bought the remote control kit. So the confusion/question arose because the manual of the kit doesn't cover your case of a four terminal motor?
Is it a kit by Muir? I bought that, many moons ago, found the receipt on the computer but can't find the actual control box on the boat... otherwise I would have installed it a long time ago.

The receipt says: Anchor Winch Reversing Solenoid Series Wound 12V 150A by justboating.com.au for $164.