Help with Inverter Wiring Diagram

[00X]

hello,

we are trying to learn about inverter/charger wiring. i spent most of yesterday reading and watching videos. if you have time could you inspect my crude wiring diagram to see if we are getting close to understanding basic inverter wiring, or even better, if our diagram would actually be acceptable?

we have done a fair bit of wiring aboard our boat, including most of the AC and DC wiring. it was fairly easy but we have never owned an inverter or inverter/charger. inverter only wiring seems pretty easy, but the inverter charger combination is a bit harder and new to us so we are struggling a little with it.

the idea in my diagram is that all the loads on our single, simple AC distribution panel could be powered by either shore power or the inverter independently. the rotary switch would prevent both from being run simultaneously. the hope is that it would all play nice with our elci and gfci breakers and outlets. the rotary switch after the elci breaker should certainly work on shore power without issue, but i am not sure about when the inverter is on?

i did not show any fuses or disconnects to try and keep it simple. anyways, thank you for any feedback.

[00X]

sorry, i am having trouble with the attachment.

[rslifkin]

That rotary switch setup is not safe, as you could power the panel with shore and the inverter output at the same time. If you want a setup like that, the switch should select between shore in and inverter out as the sources for the panel. So 2 sources going into the switch, the output of the switch going to the panel. Inverter in should have shore power all the time (if you want, add an extra switch or breaker so you can turn off the input to the inverter).

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by 00X

sorry, i am having trouble with the attachment.

There are some limits on file types and sizes, you may have exceeded them. When you go to upload a file it will tell you what the limits are.

What make is the inverter?

Pete

[00X]

ok hopefully my drawing is visible now. it looks like it got a little cropped but everything is in the picture.

[00X]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That rotary switch setup is not safe, as you could power the panel with shore and the inverter output at the same time. If you want a setup like that, the switch should select between shore in and inverter out as the sources for the panel. So 2 sources going into the switch, the output of the switch going to the panel. Inverter in should have shore power all the time (if you want, add an extra switch or breaker so you can turn off the input to the inverter).

may i ask how that would be possible? what am i missing? this is the switch we have. we were hoping we could repurpose it. this was something that i was wondering about the most. these switches uusually take two inputs and send them thru the switch as a single output depending on which input is selected. in our drawing i reversed it, sending one input in from the shore power and out to two outputs depending on which one is selected. i did not know if this was possible to do with these switches? this was going to be another question for later.

https://shop.pkys.com/AC-Source-Selector-Switches

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by 00X

this is the switch we have. we were hoping we could repurpose it. this was something that i was wondering about the most. these switches uusually take two inputs and send them thru the switch as a single output depending on which input is selected. in our drawing i reversed it, sending one input in from the shore power and out to two outputs depending on which one is selected. i did not know if this was possible to do with these switches?

https://shop.pkys.com/AC-Source-Selector-Switches

You can use the switch you have, just not the way you drew the diagram. Use it as 2 inputs, 1 output. Input 1 on the switch is "shore", input 2 is "inverter output". The shore power inlet feeds both Input 1 on the switch and the input on the inverter.

That will allow you to bypass the inverter and feed the panel directly (which you only need to do if you have to shut the inverter off entirely for maintenance) but won't allow you to feed the panel from 2 sources at the same time.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by 00X

hello,

we are trying to learn about inverter/charger wiring. i spent most of yesterday reading and watching videos. if you have time could you inspect my crude wiring diagram to see if we are getting close to understanding basic inverter wiring, or even better, if our diagram would actually be acceptable?

we have done a fair bit of wiring aboard our boat, including most of the AC and DC wiring. it was fairly easy but we have never owned an inverter or inverter/charger. inverter only wiring seems pretty easy, but the inverter charger combination is a bit harder and new to us so we are struggling a little with it.

the idea in my diagram is that all the loads on our single, simple AC distribution panel could be powered by either shore power or the inverter independently. the rotary switch would prevent both from being run simultaneously. the hope is that it would all play nice with our elci and gfci breakers and outlets. the rotary switch after the elci breaker should certainly work on shore power without issue, but i am not sure about when the inverter is on?

i did not show any fuses or disconnects to try and keep it simple. anyways, thank you for any feedback.

No, that isn’t correct. Attached is my reference diagram for a simple installation. It has an isolation transformer that you can replace with a galvanic isolator (but reduced safety and features) but the Multiplus replaces the rotary switch (it has an internal transfer switch).

Edit: also, isn’t the ELCI supposed to be between inlet and whatever comes first?! (when using an isolation transformer the ELCI may be replaced with a regular double pole breaker like in my diagram.)

[00X]

Originally Posted by Pete7

There are some limits on file types and sizes, you may have exceeded them. When you go to upload a file it will tell you what the limits are.

What make is the inverter?

Pete

thank you pete. i think i have it now. a victron multiplus. i ordered the multiplus by mistake. i was supposed to order the phoenix inverter. we are trying to figure out if we can make the multiplus work for us instead of sending it back for the phoenix inverter only.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by 00X

thank you pete. i think i have it now. a victron multiplus. i ordered the multiplus by mistake. i was supposed to order the phoenix inverter. we are trying to figure out if we can make the multiplus work for us instead of sending it back for the phoenix inverter only.

The Multiplus is superior.

[boatpoker]

It's probably just the diagram but ... I hope your shore ground from the Galvanic Isolator is not connected through one of the poles in that "double pole on/off switch" or the E.L.C.I.

[00X]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

It's probably just the diagram but ... I hope your shore ground from the Galvanic Isolator is not connected through one of the poles in that "double pole on/off switch" or the E.L.C.I.

its just the diagram.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by 00X

thank you pete. i think i have it now. a victron multiplus. i ordered the multiplus by mistake. i was supposed to order the phoenix inverter. we are trying to figure out if we can make the multiplus work for us instead of sending it back for the phoenix inverter only.

This is what Victron's manual says:
2
2. DESCRIPTION
2.1 In general
The basis of the MultiPlus is an extremely powerful sine inverter, battery charger and automatic switch in a compact casing


You ordered a COMBINED inverter charger, instead of just an inverter.


What you bought ALREADY has an automatic transfer switch built right into it, so you do NOT need and shouldn't use your switch. If you buy just an inverter, you WOULD need a transfer switch.


For your combined I/C, power comes TO the I/C before it goes to the AC panel, because the I/C is just one of two sources of power TO the AC panel and because it has its own ATS (automatic transfer switch) the shorepower goes through the I/C when shorepower is available, and uses the I when shorepower is absent.


You must already have the manual, right?
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...xxx4xx)-EN.pdf


Appendix B Block diagram shows how to for your single unit.

[00X]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

You can use the switch you have, just not the way you drew the diagram. Use it as 2 inputs, 1 output. Input 1 on the switch is "shore", input 2 is "inverter output". The shore power inlet feeds both Input 1 on the switch and the input on the inverter.

That will allow you to bypass the inverter and feed the panel directly (which you only need to do if you have to shut the inverter off entirely for maintenance) but won't allow you to feed the panel from 2 sources at the same time.

this is the way we were intending to wire in the inverter and the shore power. we were going to put the inverter on one input and shore power on the other input and send the load wires to the AC panel. this was the way we envisioned it and seems pretty simple and strait forward using the phoenix inverter.

the phoenix inverter is much simpler. it only takes input from the batteries and sends that out as AC. when i made the mistake and ordered the multiplus it became more complicated because it takes AC and DC inputs. that was the reasoning why we flipped the use of the rotary switch to one input and two outputs. the multiplus has to have a N-L-E AC input for the charger to operate and i presume the power assist feature. we were not sure if you could use a rotary switch the opposite way it was intended to be used?

i think we are going to send back the multiplus. it seems like an amazing inverter for what it can do but we really wanted to keep things as simple as possible. our boat is small and we only want to be able to have the comfort of using a little bit of AC when we are away from the dock and electric shore power.

[CrispyCringle]

Jedi is the Jedi on these, especially Victron. But the Victron you have is smart enough to know when AC shore is coming in. In simple terms for the AC side, you could go direct from shore to inverter IN to Inv OUT to AC bus. The Victron will either bypass and go to your AC bus, or match shore volts and freqs to augment using its inverter, if necessary. Its also smart enough to know it cant be inverting on battery and have the charger running. But it can immediately go to inverter mode if the shore is cut off for uninterrupted AC. Its pretty nice. You do need some cut-off switches, as Jedi suggested. From there you can make it as complicated as you want.

Not sure how much of a tinkerer you are 00X, but if you want to really get into the settings of the Victron I think you will still need the MkIII communication device. You use that to program with a laptop. One thing I find very annoying with the product line. But you can get a lot of the basic settings (enough to work, obviously) with DIP switches.