Honda 2000 to inverter-charger ...

[a64pilot]

I had two Honda's, together they of course made 26 amps continuous and could surge well over 30 amps I'm sure. My shore power is 30 amps. Both of them could run the whole boat, just like I was plugged in at the dock. I ran them both off of my Dinghy fuel tank so they could run a long time if you wanted them too, and you could run only one of course.
However storing them and dragging them out etc. was a PIA.
So much so that I ended up with a Diesel built in genset, it doesn't take any more room than the two Honda's did.

Twin Honda's sounds like a good idea, but became way more work than I wanted.
One Honda ought to supply 100 amps of current, that isn't enough? Don't forget his Solar and wind too.

[Kita]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

This is indeed one answer and the Honda "companion" plus the old Honda will give you 3200 watts to play with. Short of getting a Dometic "soft-start" capacitor thingie, that's the only way we can kick-start A/C on the hook. Even our 2000 W Xantrex charger won't do it.

I have six L-16s (525 Ah/6 VDC=1575 Ah/12VDC), so our setups aren't wildly different. I would suggest your charging capacity is too "lossy" in that you can realistically only send about 10 amps (not 13 A) to the AC side of the charger before you trip or something like the fridge starting throws a wobbly into the circuit on the Honda. I've used my Honda to run power tools instead of running 100 ft of 12 ga. extension cord, and I've found them sensitive to spikes. My 10 amp Makita circular saw can cause it to seize if I plow thorough a knothole and even my smallish air compressor makes it choke. Drills and grinders and sabre-saws? No problem. I've heard similar reports from other sailors: Hondas are great but their circuit-protection is conservative. Fine. Get a Companion model Honda and daisy-chain them. Were it me, however, and I thought the charger/inverter was on the way out and I'd just dropped a couple of grand on new L-16s, I would upgrade the charger as well to operate at different draws. My Xantrex charger can be set at 10, 15, 20, 30 amps, all the way up to 100 amps. I keep it at 20 amps because that leaves "10 for the house" and I can run a couple of lights and chargers on without worry.

I guess the short form here is that a new bank merits a rethink of all the charge sources, and I suspect you are skating a little close to the edge of what you can reliably provide with just one Honda 2000.

Yep I have a pair of Hondas, they are not identical though one is a companion that has an RV plug on it. They also have a nice link so you can run the two of them together..if you only need one then great but when you need some more,get the other one & it plugs into the first one & now they tell me it's well over 4000 watt,like someone said they might be underrated..now is closer to 5k but I have never asked that of it yet....I also have not measured the output of one or the pair,so might be off but it is what I had been told

[donradcliffe]

Try the Google search function for this forum--there are old threads with lots of good info on this topic.

[Schooner Chandlery]

Skip, We have a Honda EU2000 that works well for our set up. We do tend to plug power tools straight into it with no problems. Our Dewalt chop saw, our Delta 13" portable thickness planer, all manner of hand tools seem just fine when run directly from the Honda. Similarly, even the startup load from our Edgestar Washer/dryer (oh, yes, and the dryer itself...) work well on the Honda EU2000 directly. We just use an extension cord that lets us plug the Honda into the 30 amp shorepower plug of the boat. The only problems with the lone Honda EU2000 was running the on-demand hot water heater built into the washing machine. It can't handle that.

We do have a 8kW Onan diesel genset that came with the boat. It was actually new in a crate and we installed it since the PO had bought it but never installed it. We don't ever use it. Literally just start it up every so many months and try to figure out ways to load it up (turn on the shop-vac, the washer (with water heater on!), the air compressor, the electric space heater we never use...bunches of stuff all at once to try and give it a little work out. Shouldn't have installed it but rather should have sold it and bought one about 1/2 the capacity.

We have the same Xantrex TruePower 40 that you own -- it charges our house bank (4 L16 batteries) and when we've got the Honda on for charging purposes, to load it up properly we like to simultaneously charge the windlass battery bank and spare start battery (both of these happen to have their own chargers 30A and 20A respectively separate from the Xantrex. So, at the beginning of each charge period, momentarily we will have 40A+30A+20A chargers all on and charging. Clearly, pretty quickly they're not full-on pulling their max capacity though.

Besides the water heater pulling too much for the single Honda alone, the only other problem we've had is we own many Milwaukee V28 tools. The quick charger for the V28 tools really pulls alot it seems. If it is in use to charge one of the V28 batteries at the same time as the Xantrex, that will overload the Honda. So clearly the V28 charger is a bit much.

Inverters: when we came aboard the boat, we had a couple inexpensive little ones that can handle a laptop (one of them) or our SFF computer w/ 400watt power supply + 23" monitor (the other one). Nothing fancy going there. We've used them for the computers as needed and pretty much that's it. No big wonderfully designed and integrated inverter/charger or such.

Regarding the Honda? It all works. And we're happy. And that's the important bit of this story.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Valmika

I have the Magna 2000 inverter charger and it is also adjustable as to what shore power settings (or generator) you have. They have always answered my calls directly and are out of Washington. If you want give them a call and see if they pick up. They spent 30 minutes with me answering questions before I had even bought a unit. I always cll customer service before I buy a product ;-)
I have the Honda 2000 and I think I have the charger set at around 60 amps. Don't quote me till I check but I know I'm close.

I can find no reference to a Magna 2000 - but there appear to be some number of Magnum 2XXX units.

I guess I'm not smart enough to decipher the listings, as some seem to be down in the 50A range, and others in the 100A range for charger.

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

clip...

I have six L-16s (525 Ah/6 VDC=1575 Ah/12VDC),

BIG (mostly) clip...

Wow!!! whose are those? I found L16 in various AHs from 325 to the low 400s (mine were the highest I found, other than Rolls, which wouldn't fit into my bank).

More in different pages...

L8R

Skip

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

(clip)

Twin Honda's sounds like a good idea, but became way more work than I wanted.

Amen to that - not to mention the space to store them...

Originally Posted by a64pilot

One Honda ought to supply 100 amps of current, that isn't enough? Don't forget his Solar and wind too.

The question was about the capacity of my H2000 and a suitable inverter-charger to maximize the H2000 capacity. The wind and solar are icing on the cake; with some luck, it will be windy enough and sunny enough that the H2000 gets very little work. But when it does, I need it to push as many amps as possible.

FWIW, the couple of Magnums I looked at were only 85% efficient; I have no idea, actually, what my efficiency is on my Xantrex (the 40A is actually somewhat more, on the order of 41A or so possible, but at what cost in incoming 120VAC amps I dunno).

So...

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

Skip, We have a Honda EU2000 that works well for our set up.

(clip power tools and washing machine discussion)

We have the same Xantrex TruePower 40 that you own -- it charges our house bank (4 L16 batteries) and when we've got the Honda on for charging purposes, to load it up properly we like to simultaneously charge the windlass battery bank and spare start battery (both of these happen to have their own chargers 30A and 20A respectively separate from the Xantrex. So, at the beginning of each charge period, momentarily we will have 40A+30A+20A chargers all on and charging. Clearly, pretty quickly they're not full-on pulling their max capacity though.

We also have the windlass and start batteries connected via a Cole-Hersee 48120 isolator; the feed goes to the center pin; curiously, currently, those batteries have virtually the same voltage as the house bank, despite the expected 0.7V drop (maybe this unit is smarter or something?). In any event, now that all the cabling has been upgraded, I am very happy with that part of it; I've measured every cable's amps in/out, and the start battery is, indeed isolated (doesn't shed amps when I'm loading it up on the house), yet, seems to have a better than expected charge. The one time we used it (to move from the face to a slip where the stern could almost touch the dock, enhancing solar work) the starter just flew.

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

(clip tools)

Inverters: when we came aboard the boat, we had a couple inexpensive little ones that can handle a laptop (one of them) or our SFF computer w/ 400watt power supply + 23" monitor (the other one). Nothing fancy going there. We've used them for the computers as needed and pretty much that's it. No big wonderfully designed and integrated inverter/charger or such.

We do have both a dual USB charger for the phones and a little one (HFreight 80w) for laptops if needed (rarely; I have a 12V computer system with multiple backup HDD all switched on 12V)

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

Regarding the Honda? It all works. And we're happy. And that's the important bit of this story.

Ours works, too - I just need to be able to get more amps into the battery than my current setup allows.

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Well, I went with 800 pounds of lead in the right place on a steel boat precisely because the only useful band for me is the top 20% of battery capacity. If you never go below 75% SOC, life is easier and the mystical unicorn of "solar got me to 100% by noon" can happen...assuming plenty of panels and the right setpoints. And a somewhat parsimonious energy budget in the first place. And the sort of three-foot crimpers one uses to do all those 2/0 ga. cables.

If there are shortcuts here, I haven't found them. More batteries cycled more "shallowly" yield confidence, long battery life and less gymnastics to keep them charged in the first place.

We try to keep our charge (well, what we THOUGHT was so via the TriMetric, but our Balmar should eventually learn our bank and give us far more accurate analysis) at 75% or better, too. In general, we'd usually run the Honda at anything over 200AH gone when we got up; we'd wait until 8AM to start if we were in a crowd.

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Try the Google search function for this forum--there are old threads with lots of good info on this topic.

On chargers which will take all, but not more than it can happily deliver, the power of the Honda, and dish out something notably more than 70A to the bank? How do you style that search? I'd love to read them...



Meanwhile, the solar panels came in with the wrong frames (no mounting holes); new ones to be here ASAP, though probably not before Friday or maybe even the weekend. "It's a boat!" The dockmaster is getting very unhappy as we're not transient, daily rate spenders as are marching through here on their annual migrations north.

L8R

Skip

[fallingeggs]

Skip,

I have a Honda 2000 powering a Victron 12/2000/80 (2000 watt inverter, 80 amp charger, 120 volts). Bank is 645 amp hours made up of 6 6-volt golf cart batteries.

With absorption voltage set to 14.7, I can pump 80 amps into the bank by pulling 1300 to 1400 watts from the Honda. This has been confirmed with the Victron battery monitor/amp meter/amp hour counter. Will be installing the SmartGuage this week, fwiw. I'm not sure of the claim that the Honda can pump out 120 amps for long periods of time. I'd think 90 amps, from a high efficient charger (not the Iotas) is the most for a continuous load. You can down rate the Victron 3000/120 to do this, of course, but you'd be paying a few hundred more for it, installing a bigger box, for only 10 more amps in bulk. (Doesn't seem like the extra inverter capacity is required.)

With only 1300 to 1400 watts from the Honda (not yet sure why it fluctuates), I can put the Honda on eco mode to reduce its RPM, noise, and extend the range. Best part is that it slowly ramps down as the amps to the bank are restricted. I tend to let it run till acceptance is around 30 amps, then I let solar finish it off. Still honing in the various parameters, as the set up is still very new.

The 2000 watt inverter is pure sine. It also has PowerAssist, so with the Honda running, I can pull up to 4000 watts for a short period of time. I run a 100% electric galley, so I use this feature from time to time when I have both my oven and induction cooktop going.

Happy to answer any other questions about the Honda and Victron, if you have specific ones.

[a64pilot]

I believe your right about the Magnum efficiency, I have the MS 2812 and it can be turned down from it's 125 amp high charge, its a beast.
I also have a Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 60 amp, now from an efficiency perspective, I believe its about as efficient as possible. It too has an adjustable charge setting.
I think a single Honda would run my Magnum at 100 amps, but I don't have a Honda to try it.
The way the Magnum installs, you could turn off all AC to the boat and still run the Magnum to charge as it's wired in before the boat breaker panel, that way you could be sure nothing is sucking power that you don't know about.

Personally I would not do without the Magnum, it's nice being able to run pretty much anything on the boat AC wise like you were on shorepower, all the little kitchen appliances type of stuff, not air conditioning or heating water of course. The Big charging capacity is a plus, more useful that I had at first thought, and of course gives redundancy.

[Stu Jackson]

I may have missee what you are using to control your I/C.

Power Share Feature for Link 2000 Controlling Honda Generators
Very helpful hint to control generators and 20A shorepower
Power Share feature on Link 2000

But I've moved from 30A shorepower in California to 15A here in Canada. I have a 390 ah house bank, and even when at 50% SOC I'm only seeing short bursts of 70A from the charger (Heart Freedom 15, pretty identical to yours) and then it tapers off to 60-50-40A prettty quickly.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by fallingeggs

Skip,

I have a Honda 2000 powering a Victron 12/2000/80 (2000 watt inverter, 80 amp charger, 120 volts).

(clip)

I'm not sure of the claim that the Honda can pump out 120 amps for long periods of time. I'd think 90 amps, from a high efficient charger (not the Iotas) is the most for a continuous load. You can down rate the Victron 3000/120 to do this, of course, but you'd be paying a few hundred more for it, installing a bigger box, for only 10 more amps in bulk. (Doesn't seem like the extra inverter capacity is required.)

(clip)

Happy to answer any other questions about the Honda and Victron, if you have specific ones.

Thanks.

From looking at what I could find, it appears that these are mostly 50 cycle, but can be special ordered for 60 cycle. (Where do they come from, or is it that everything in the US would actually be that version?)

But of most concern is that I didn't see any ability to equalize, nor did the control panel show an equalization light (though it has the other levels).

Does it have an equalization function? And, does it have to be mounted vertically? I don't have the height for it where I'd need to put it.

If my new solar is my magic bullet, I could use that controller's equalization setting - but otherwise I'd expect to do it with the Honda and whatever I/C I had.

The Magnum MS2012 does have an equalization function - but weighs in at 50# - oof! My I/C is mounted on the bulkhead, and there's no other practical place for a replacement...

Thanks for your and any others' insights.

L8R

Skip

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

..............
.................................................. ...

The Magnum MS2012 does have an equalization function - but weighs in at 50# - oof! My I/C is mounted on the bulkhead, and there's no other practical place for a replacement...

Skip,

My identical Freedom 15 weighs IIRC 57#.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I may have missee what you are using to control your I/C.

Power Share Feature for Link 2000 Controlling Honda Generators
Very helpful hint to control generators and 20A shorepower
Power Share feature on Link 2000

But I've moved from 30A shorepower in California to 15A here in Canada. I have a 390 ah house bank, and even when at 50% SOC I'm only seeing short bursts of 70A from the charger (Heart Freedom 15, pretty identical to yours) and then it tapers off to 60-50-40A prettty quickly.

We have their remote battery status monitor; mostly it's for turning it on or off, as well as telling us what's going on. The Xan has no on-the-fly adjustments. There are pots you set for the battery bank size and other parameters, but that's it - and equalization is done by pinprick in the little hole on the face (and doesn't usually kick right in, but requires some babystting; the same is true of the 40A, but that one will run for up to 6 hours before shutting down [or you manually shut it down via pinprick] - the 1500/70 runs for an hour and if it didn't like the result, gives an error code), not the remote.

The ability to kick off an equalization without having to climb over the engine and sit around waiting for a cycle to start, and have it go for a specified period, with an analysis (success or error code) would be a wonderful thing to build into a monitor.

Anyone have a candidate for all three? (Max amps the Honda can produce, leading to 80-100 or so user-controlled charging amps, in 3 or 4-stage modes, and equalization, all controlled externally - no touching the actual unit)

L8R

Skip

[a64pilot]

Both my Sterling and my Magnum will do what you want, except of course the Sterling is limited to 60 Amps max.
Both have remotes and I don't usually touch the actual units, everything is done by remote

[john61ct]

Keep in mind with FLA batteries, the difference between an 80A charger and 100A - in how quickly your bank gets from X% to 100% - will be non-existent if X > 70%, and even for all the way discharged at 50%, might be 10-20 minutes per cycle.

That is, if the EU2000 is even able to deliver 90+A continuous. Seems to me that 80A is the optimum, and go with Victron, ProMariner & Sterling letting you tweak the voltage setpoints, absorption time etc will be helpful.

[a64pilot]

He has a BIG bank, 870 Ah, it may stay at 100 amp charge for awhile, if a smaller bank, I'd agree no need for 100 amp charger.
Plus you have to remember to subtract the boat's parasitic load, if the boat is using say 15 amps, then a 100 amp charger is only charging at 85 amps