Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

[nofacey]

Re:OP comment about NexGEN alternate - have a 10 yr old NexGen 3.5 kW unit, and love it - simple, reliable, sips fuel, neighbour’s don’t know it’s running. Don’t have to hump it around, runs off main fuel tank at all angles in all weather, hardwired.
Lived aboard for 6 yrs doing circumnavigation, still starts like a charm.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by smac999

let me rephrase your question. because it comes up here alot.

"hello I can't afford to correctly, safely, and properly fix my boat.

I would like to use the incorrect cheap fix. risking the life of myself, my family, other boaters, and the coast gaurd employees having to come save me, possible voiding my boat insurance, and pissing off near by boats with the noise/ what do you guys think?

should I fix it correctly or do it the wrong way?

You'd call the coast guard if your AC wasn't working?

[malbert73]

My 21 year old NextGen 5.5 gave up it’s windings. Could have replaced the head but decided (due to challenge and cost of removal and install) to replace with a brand new Nextgen 5.5. Can run AC, high output charger, as well as appliances and eventually high output water maker.
Around 8-9K for the unit which runs at 2800 RPM via a belt. Powered by 2 cylinder Kubota Z482 engine which powers a lot of industrial stuff like refrigerator trucks. My old one was flawless except for blowing a capacitor (15 min and $30 to replace) every 5 years or so. Easy choice, fairly small and lightweight and much simpler than FP which I only hear horror stories about

To the OP- do you plan to own the boat for a while? If so don’t go halfway. Your boat already has built in genset install so replacing with Nextgen is easy and pushing a button (and not annoying neighbors) is so much more pleasant and easy

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by malbert73

My 21 year old NextGen 5.5 gave up it’s windings. Could have replaced the head but decided (due to challenge and cost of removal and install) to replace with a brand new Nextgen 5.5. Can run AC, high output charger, as well as appliances and eventually high output water maker.
Around 8-9K for the unit which runs at 2800 RPM via a belt. Powered by 2 cylinder Kubota Z482 engine which powers a lot of industrial stuff like refrigerator trucks. My old one was flawless except for blowing a capacitor (15 min and $30 to replace) every 5 years or so. Easy choice, fairly small and lightweight and much simpler than FP which I only hear horror stories about

To the OP- do you plan to own the boat for a while? If so don’t go halfway. Your boat already has built in genset install so replacing with Nextgen is easy and pushing a button (and not annoying neighbors) is so much more pleasant and easy

How many hours did you have on that unit? I am curious because I have always loved the way those NexGen generators look -- they seem refreshingly straightforward, simple, and rugged -- the opposite of Fischer Panda, and just what you would want on a cruising boat.


I have a heavy duty Kohler 6.5kW low speed (1500 RPM) generator, which my boat was built with. It's 20 years old and 2500 hours and there has never been the slightest problem with the electrical side. I've a couple of extremely minor problems with the 3 cylinder Yanmar diesel which drives it -- air leak in a fuel line, bad fuel pump contacts, bad heat exchanger (operator error). The one problem with it, however, is that it is massively heavy, almost 600 pounds. Even on a big boat this is a lot of weight (and volume) so I don't think I would do that again.

[Al B]

BIT OFF TOPIC ,
West Marine sells Firman generators ,
Not deisgned for boat use , but they sell them ,
Everytime I am in a west marine and walk past that display I invision
a beginner boater buying one of these , putting it cabin or running it
not in a safe manor ,
HEY if West Marine sells them it must be safe

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

How many hours did you have on that unit? I am curious because I have always loved the way those NexGen generators look -- they seem refreshingly straightforward, simple, and rugged -- the opposite of Fischer Panda, and just what you would want on a cruising boat.


I have a heavy duty Kohler 6.5kW low speed (1500 RPM) generator, which my boat was built with. It's 20 years old and 2500 hours and there has never been the slightest problem with the electrical side. I've a couple of extremely minor problems with the 3 cylinder Yanmar diesel which drives it -- air leak in a fuel line, bad fuel pump contacts, bad heat exchanger (operator error). The one problem with it, however, is that it is massively heavy, almost 600 pounds. Even on a big boat this is a lot of weight (and volume) so I don't think I would do that again.

It only had 599 hours on it. I plan to sell because someone with more time and expertise probably could get it going. Or get the conversion kit to install the new head Nextgen uses (Linz).
Nextgen used a head (Markon ) which subsequently ended up being mediocre but was not known 21 years ago. Now they have switched to one that apparently is much better regarded- the Linz.
The engine is superb. Can’t go wrong with Kubota and the 5.5 uses a 2 cylinder Z482.
If the location was not so tortuous I would have repaired but since a good bit of cost was removal and reinstall (had to be disassembled to remove and install through hatch) I decided to replace. I am at a stage where work is very busy and my time is better spent (with more ROI) working and taking chunks of time off to cruise.
All of that is to say the NextGen is easily user serviceable. Very simple. Quite light. And a nice hybrid between a screamer and a much heavier low RPM model.
Bad thing is NextGen’s manual and instructions are very outdated. Great thing is you can call them anytime and their live customer support is fantastic. (Often you will get Ken directly who I think has personally built over 25K gensets. I think they do a lot of custom builds also for those who want a DC generator etc. )
And all engine parts are cross referenced so you can just buy from Kubota source cheap.

[Davidla]

Originally Posted by mcon12000

Then plug this into the unused outlet. You’ll also need to ground the Generator (most don’t) to the DC grounding buss on the boat. ...



...Last one, I’m ABYC certified but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t double check any advice you get from me or others especially since every boat has a unique set of circumstances and it’s impossible to give any advice via the web that doesn’t involve starting with a bare boat.

Anybody who says ground something to the DC grounding buss a) doesn't know how to spell bus (stands for "basic user system", believe it or not) and b) doesn't completely understand DC electricity. Even if they are ABYC certified. There is no such thing as a a DC ground, it is not required and does not exist. There are two wires on a DC circuit a positive and a negative. YES you may have zero volts at your Engine which co-incidentally passes to your prop shaft, thanks to the negative wire and case negative of the starter. (Not in the instance of a sail drive they are isolated). But these are a part of the negative DC circuit and are not a ground. Why? Because they are not needed. DC electricity leaves the positive terminal and then goes through the load, drops to zero volts and then returns to the negative terminal of the battery (this is true of all circuits). This is how electricity works it returns to the source. No boat has a DC "ground" if the negative battery terminal is disconnected.

Don't get me started on electron flow vs conventional flow - in a nutshell, all multimeters lie to you and tell you positive is negative and negative is positive. Why? Because a hundred years ago we got it wrong and it was so widespread we continued the lie.

[mcon12000]

Originally Posted by Davidla

Anybody who says ground something to the DC grounding buss a) doesn't know how to spell bus (stands for "basic user system", believe it or not) and b) doesn't completely understand DC electricity. Even if they are ABYC certified. There is no such thing as a a DC ground, it is not required and does not exist. There are two wires on a DC circuit a positive and a negative. YES you may have zero volts at your Engine which co-incidentally passes to your prop shaft, thanks to the negative wire and case negative of the starter. (Not in the instance of a sail drive they are isolated). But these are a part of the negative DC circuit and are not a ground. Why? Because they are not needed. DC electricity leaves the positive terminal and then goes through the load, drops to zero volts and then returns to the negative terminal of the battery (this is true of all circuits). This is how electricity works it returns to the source. No boat has a DC "ground" if the negative battery terminal is disconnected.

Don't get me started on electron flow vs conventional flow - in a nutshell, all multimeters lie to you and tell you positive is negative and negative is positive. Why? Because a hundred years ago we got it wrong and it was so widespread we continued the lie.

You’re actually wrong in a marine application it’s referred to as the DC Negative Bus. Your AC is Ground is attached to this bus. Standard E-11 and if I added an S to bus I apologize I haven’t actually checked yet. In my real job we Buss items in signal flow so I often make this error in spelling. Also to be clear there’s a DC Negative Bus and the boats Grounding Bus. Both are connected and honestly I don’t feel it’s necessary to explain here the difference which is why I suggested the OP have an audit.

It’s been known for a long time that flow is from the negative terminal to the positive and how would that nugget have been helpful to the OP?

Also the focus here is AC from a generator which should have a path to ground other than your wet hands or feet. Did you know that the water heater chassis is also on the DC Negative Bus which is is attached to the “Grounding Bus”.

[James M B]

I went with the NextGen 5.5KW powered by a Kubota 2cyl 10hp diesel running at 2800RPM. With the sound enclosure and extra sound proofing in the stbd cockpit locker it's pretty quiet. Uses about a gallon of diesel in 4 hours, tied into main diesel tank.
When it's 98f and humid here allows me to leave the dock and anchor out.