Honda EU2200i onboard

[Mer Sauvage]

I made a 5 day run awhile back with a 2000 Honda and all went well. I had very little power need and used it to keep my batteries topped off at night instead of running the boat engine. My concern as I continue to study and learn the ins and outs of boat AC/DC systems is that I don't get into any safety issues. My plan now is to take a new EU 2200i (120vac, 15amp output) and connect it up using my shore power cable (30amp plug with 15amp adapter at generator). I have all led lights, bilge pump, anchor light/spreader light and battery chargers for start and house bank. No ac, refer, heater, microwave or other high watt devices. Mainly charging boat batteries, with some lights on and charging computer, phone or other small devices. I know the eu2000 i had handled it so i would expect this one to as well. I will be adding up all of the watt hours to confirm as well so my question is not a load question except for maybe the battery chargers. I forgot to mention that previously I had made a harness/sling out of nylon line that i hung the generator from the back stay and pulpit to isolate noise and vibration from telegraphing thru the boat and also insure the exhaust was pointed aft and well above the cockpit to avoid CO in the boat. (still a concern). So after all that typing... Is there any grounding issue? Should i attach a wire to the ground lug on the generator and through the other end in the water or will that be worse? There is only one AC duplex receptacle and i will not be using it on board, just want to make sure my batteries are ready to go by 4 am the next morning when I prepare to set off. will not be sailing in the dark unless necessary so should be able to let the generator run for 8 or 10 hours easily if needed. Only have EV100 wheel pilot, chart plotter, vhf and a little bilge pump cycling during the day so dont expect batteries to be in bad shape by end of the day.

[Adelie]

What you propose is very inefficient in terms of fuel usage and engine hours (maintenance costs & replacement interval).

When batteries charge (let’s say we’re starting at 50%) initially they accept a lot of charge, probably as as much as the generator can put out, but that quickly dwindles. In 60-90min you will have gotten the batteries up to 75%, but it will take another 4-6hr to get the last 25% in.

With the small amount of loads you’ve indicated then you might be better off installing 200-300W of solar panels which should be able to support those loads most days. On days when you are worried about poor production due to weather you can run the main engine a bit.

If you install solar and feel the need to use the engine or the generator then use it first thing in the morning for 30-60min when the batteries are at their lowest and can accept charge faster. Then let the solar finish the for the long slow part of the charging cycle.

If you don’t have room for more than 100-200W of solar then this will still work but you might find yourself using the engine or generator most days rather than just occasionally.

If you can’t find any place to mount the panels or can’t live with how they look then the Honda is probably the way to go, you could buy 10-15 Honda’s for the price of an onboard replacement.

[RickG]

We liveaboard in the Caribbean. We have 660 watts of solar and it's rainy season. Our Honda EU2000i is one of the most reliable devices I have owned. Add an hour meter and change the oil every 100 hours and follow the maintenance recommendations. Hit it with CorrsionX to reduce corrosion. We have 1,090 hours on ours.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Cheers, RickG

[zemurray]

not sure what your power requirements are, but living aboard our boat for a couple of days using a fridge, charging all devices, lights, etc.. I could charge the batteries fully in a couple hours with a honda generator.

now we have a 160W solar panel that keeps up just fine unless its cloudy for a week. Without the fridge it would keep up indefinitely even on cloudy days. Personally i would not sleep with the generator going all night. If you have a half way decent shore charger, you should be able to top up the batteries in the evening for one days use in an hour, well before turning in for the night. If you are draining all of your battery capacity with an auto pilot during the day, you may want to check sail trim etc.. to make sure the boat feels balanced. The more weather helm you have the harder the auto pilot will work.

As far as the ground goes, the ground in the shore power cable should ground the honda to the boat.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by zemurray

not sure what your power requirements are, but living aboard our boat for a couple of days using a fridge, charging all devices, lights, etc.. I could charge the batteries fully in a couple hours with a honda generator.

now we have a 160W solar panel that keeps up just fine unless its cloudy for a week. Without the fridge it would keep up indefinitely even on cloudy days. Personally i would not sleep with the generator going all night. If you have a half way decent shore charger, you should be able to top up the batteries in the evening for one days use in an hour, well before turning in for the night. If you are draining all of your battery capacity with an auto pilot during the day, you may want to check sail trim etc.. to make sure the boat feels balanced. The more weather helm you have the harder the auto pilot will work.

As far as the ground goes, the ground in the shore power cable should ground the honda to the boat.

If there has been any significant draw down of the battery state of charge you will not be able to top it back up in 1 hour. By that I mean if you have drawn it down more than about 5% it will take more than 1hr to recharge unless you use an elevated voltage which will damage the battery. Max charge rate tapers very heavily as you approach full.

Most lead batteries have a max charging voltage of 14.0-14.8v. Gels at the lower end at about 14.1v. Varies by maker and battery model. You can charge the batteries at a higher voltage but that decreases the life expectancy of the battery. Sort of like smoking, 1 cigarette is not going to significantly decrease your life expectancy, smoking daily will.

Lead battery types:
Flooded (FLA): Cheaper per Ahr, require periodic addition of water to the cells, you can recover more easily form abusing them.
Gels: Significantly more expensive than FLAs, about as expensive as AGMs. Touchy about any over voltage charging. Longer life expectancy than FLA or AGM. Hard or impossible to fix damage from abuse.
Absorbed Glass Mat: Can support very high discharge, some can be equalized to repair damage. Can absorb very high initial charging rates and actually needs higher than normal charging rates. Does not like Partial State of Charge (PSoC) operation, that is it really needs to get back to 100% regularly. If you have a stock alternator and a small battery bank, you are probably fine. If you have a lot of solar you might not need to use the engine or generator very often. If you have a moderate amount of solar you will need to run the engine or generator a bit some or most mornings. With a little bit of solar you will need to run the engine daily and may still be damaging the batteries by not getting to 100% most days. Even with a good charging system probably not as much cycle life as FLA.
Carbon Foam (CF variation on AGM): 2-3x life expectancy of Gels, probably about twice the cost of Gel or AGM. Relatively new technology so still a bit of maturing going on. Can be regularly run down to 20% whereas others don't like going below 50% very often.

If I was going to use electric propulsion I would get CF. Because of the ability to draw the batteries down further and the need for a lot of them there will be a significant weight savings for a given number of miles you want to motor on battery power

For house uses the best bang for the buck is FLA as long you have good access to water the batteries and know that you will deal with them monthly.
If you have poor access or know you are not going to be good about checking them then Gels.

I would only use AGMs for battery power in the tender where the battery is banged around a lot being loaded and off loaded regularly, may need to run on it's side and may need to deliver high current.

[smac999]

There is no way you should be running a gen 8 hrs a day. Maybe 1-2. And defiantly not at night well you sleep. Run while awake only. You can not point the exhaust. It’s the wind that moves it into the cabin. Then you die.

How big is your battery charger? How many ah do you consume a day?

Get your self a battery monitor like a victron 712.

And make sure your charger is min 60a. 80-100a is Likly runable off the 2200.

[zemurray]

Originally Posted by Adelie

If there has been any significant draw down of the battery state of charge you will not be able to top it back up in 1 hour. By that I mean if you have drawn it down more than about 5% it will take more than 1hr to recharge unless you use an elevated voltage which will damage the battery. Max charge rate tapers very heavily as you approach full.

Depends on the size of the bank, how much he used, and what he considers topped off. I did indicate “topped off for a days use”, because the data I gave him is real world experience. I use 30-40 ah a day. My battery bank is 150ah. I have a 40A charger that will consistently put 35 amps back in on bulk. I can run my generator for an hour and get into adsorption in an hour, with the batteries above 90%. I wouldn’t run the generator for another hour trying to get that last 10% as I have sufficient capacity that I don’t need it. That example was only if the OP wanted to charge his batteries every day as he indicated. I typically wait until I hit 50% SOC after 2-3 days and run the generator for 2 hours to get back to 90%. Actually, now I just use solar, but thats what I did prior. FWIW I’m using a Sterling pro charge ultra, with FLA ,and a charge profile giving to me by the battery manufacturer.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by zemurray

Depends on the size of the bank, how much he used, and what he considers topped off. I did indicate “topped off for a days use”, because the data I gave him is real world experience. I use 30-40 ah a day. My battery bank is 150ah. I have a 40A charger that will consistently put 35 amps back in on bulk. I can run my generator for an hour and get into adsorption in an hour, with the batteries above 90%. I wouldn’t run the generator for another hour trying to get that last 10% as I have sufficient capacity that I don’t need it. That example was only if the OP wanted to charge his batteries every day as he indicated. I typically wait until I hit 50% SOC after 2-3 days and run the generator for 2 hours to get back to 90%. Actually, now I just use solar, but thats what I did prior. FWIW I’m using a Sterling pro charge ultra, with FLA ,and a charge profile giving to me by the battery manufacturer.

If the batteries are lead it doesn't matter how big or small the bank is, if it has been drawn down past 90% and maybe even 95% it will take more than an hour to put it back in. It's just that the amps at completion get very small with small banks. If you consistently charge to 90% it will put a serious dent in battery life. With FLAs CFs you can recover some by equalizing. You can equalize some AGMs.

If you are coastal cruising or living aboard without moving much, lots of PoSC use is not a big deal other than that cost and hassle of replacing the batteries. If you are cruising off the the beaten path having your bank die on you could be a serious issue depending on where it occurs.

You pull 40ahr out a 150ahr bank that puts you at 73%. How do you know how much you have pulled out?
You start charging from there and are putting 35a back initially. What is the current after 15m, 30m, 45m & 60m?
How do you know you are getting to 90%?

[SV DINGO]

The EU 20 sounds like a huge overkill.

We live on board and work on board , 2 laptops , 2 TV screens , 2 fridges plus the usual lights and nav gear plus a rice cooker and we only use our EU10 with a Ctek 25 AMP charger in the autum/winter month. I generally run it about 4-5 hours in the evening after finish of biz and at the same time plug in the rice cooker. In the summer we can do without the Geni. We have 2 housebanks one with 525 amp and one with about 350 amp. Solar 640 watt plus a wind generator.

[zemurray]

Originally Posted by Adelie

If the batteries are lead it doesn't matter how big or small the bank is, if it has been drawn down past 90% and maybe even 95% it will take more than an hour to put it back in. It's just that the amps at completion get very small with small banks. If you consistently charge to 90% it will put a serious dent in battery life. With FLAs CFs you can recover some by equalizing. You can equalize some AGMs.

If you are coastal cruising or living aboard without moving much, lots of PoSC use is not a big deal other than that cost and hassle of replacing the batteries. If you are cruising off the the beaten path having your bank die on you could be a serious issue depending on where it occurs.

You pull 40ahr out a 150ahr bank that puts you at 73%. How do you know how much you have pulled out?
You start charging from there and are putting 35a back initially. What is the current after 15m, 30m, 45m & 60m?
How do you know you are getting to 90%?

I’m assuming the OP is talking about managing power on a passage, not living for 24 months with taking his battery to 90%. If he were living on the boat for extended periods, he wouldn’t be talking about running a gas generator for 8 hours a day.

The size of the bank does matter. If he’s gotten 800 ah bank, only uses 40ah, then he wont drain enough to get to a lower voltage that would allow him to bulk charge at a higher rate. He would be in absorption from the get go and a lower charge current. His best bet in that scenario would be to wait several days without charging, then charge for however long it takes to get out of bulk.

How do I know what I’m pulling out, what I’m putting back in at what rate and what my SOC is? Simple, I monitor it. Charging your batteries to 90% periodically is not going to substantially reduce your battery life. Once you get back to a shore charger, it will be 100%.

I’m not really interested in a debate about it. I shared my experience on real data. Take it or leave it.

[NYSail]

For my Honda, I bought an exhaust pipe extension kit. It is a silicone hose...... 5 feet that attaches to exhaust manifold. I had a machine shop weld on the adapter. It manager exhaust nicely...... hangs in water off to the side with the gen on the transom.

Greg

[Mer Sauvage]

I would like to thank everyone for their replies. In reviewing them I knew that i was not providing enough info for you to fully address the issues in my post but in not doing so I inadvertently provided you an opportunity to speculate and offer thoughts that have been more helpful than the actual questions i posed. I have now started research into my setup. Your comments also exposed something about the way I have always approached my travels which i will incorporate into my gear and plans. I have always been one to try and start each day or trip fully provisioned, fueled and charged up, fearing the random disaster where i would need all resources. At this point I am going to look at my Bimini and reinforce it or build a fixed frame and look at solar to assist in charging from the previous night and also for the days wattage used. I like the idea of running the main engine (M3-20 universal) for maybe and hour as I button up and prepare to get underway then let the solar work during the day. Thanks again!

[Randy P]

We’ve been using the Honda 2000EI generator on our Trojan F26 for a number of years. I plug it into the boat’s 30A AC inlet (same I use for shore power). I mount the Honda on either the hardtop of the boat or on a raised portion of the swim platform because it reduces the noise. We used it during a 6 week cruise of the Erie Canal when shore power was not available. No problems. You’re going to charge your batteries and run your boat’s electricals without issues. If there is a overload the Honda will just shut down......I know since I tried once to run it to our furnace blower at home during a winter outage and it shut off because it’s too wimpy for that.

[smac999]

Originally Posted by SV DINGO

The EU 20 sounds like a huge overkill.

We live on board and work on board , 2 laptops , 2 TV screens , 2 fridges plus the usual lights and nav gear plus a rice cooker and we only use our EU10 with a Ctek 25 AMP charger in the autum/winter month. I generally run it about 4-5 hours in the evening after finish of biz and at the same time plug in the rice cooker. In the summer we can do without the Geni. We have 2 housebanks one with 525 amp and one with about 350 amp. Solar 640 watt plus a wind generator.

It’s not overkill. A 2000 will run a 80a charger. It’ll put more in 1 hour then yours in 5 hours of running. Running a gen for 5 hours a day with a 25a charger is rediculus. Your load is probably 5-10a. So you are only charging 15-20.

5hr for 75-100ah. Vrs 1 hr for 70-75ah.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by smac999

It’s not overkill. A 2000 will run a 80a charger. It’ll put more in 1 hour then yours in 5 hours of running. Running a gen for 5 hours a day with a 25a charger is rediculus. Your load is probably 5-10a. So you are only charging 15-20.

5hr for 75-100ah. Vrs 1 hr for 70-75ah.

5hr at 25A is 125Ahr.

Assuming the 525Ahr bank is LA rather than LiFePO then:
If they discharged to 50% they probably could charge at 25A for 2 maybe 3hr then they would be voltage limited and current would be steadily dropping for the next 4-5hr.

The 80A charger on the other hand would probably be voltage limited at 1hr and then the current would steadily drop for the next 4-5hr.