Honda Portable Generator: Will This Work?

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by Key Wester

I must disagree. Unless a gasoline genset is USCG approved, it is DANGEROUS to put on a boat, no matter the installation details! Joe D

Key, just food for thought, Every approved appliance out there, prior to the manufacturer spending $$$ for the approval process, was, in fact, an UNAPPROVED APPLIANCE!

Getting "approval" didn't instantly make it a better, safer, stronger, faster, able to LEAP TALL BUILDINGS . . . . more dependable device . . . . it just meant it had a sticker on it now. . . .

Not being "approved", or having a sticker, might perhaps just mean that the manufacturer did the math, and decided that their primary market was RV's or Van conversions, and it didn't make $$$ sense to go though the lengthy, time consuming, and often VERY expensive process just to get a USCG approval . . .

Oh, and on the comment that not having USCG approval may lead to your insurance refusing to cover a loss . . . . My boat has a microwave, coffee pot, instant water heater, several computers, coffee grinder, Instant Pot, ice maker, trash compactor, water filter, and many other off the shelf appliances . . . . NONE of which, to my knowledge are USCG "Approved", but I don't believe that the failure of any of the above, properly installed, and used could successfully be used by my insurance company to deny a claim . . . . but then, in full disclosure, I'm not an attorney, I always worked for a living.

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by Key Wester

The fuel tank on a portable genset is vented through the cap. This means there is a constant discharge of gas fumes coming from the unit. Should these accumulate in the bilge, you may experience an explosion first hand.

One of my outboard motors vents through the cap on the engine's internal fuel tank (Tohatsu 3.5 hp 2-stroke), and another outboard motor vents through the cap on its remote 6 gal fuel tank (7.5 hp Johnson 2-stroke). I have never thought of them as an unacceptable risk.

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by SV Toucan

I just took my Honda generator in for service. While there I asked about the Predator inverter generators. The experts tell me parts are not always available and reliability is nowhere near that of the Honda.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that's it probably that those "Experts" work for a company that sells Honda inverter generators, but doesn't sell Predator inverter generators . . . . Am I correct?

[Manateeman]

Just what everybody in a beautiful and peaceful harbor appreciates.. the first announcement of the arrival of sail vessel “obnoxious” ...? ...noise to rouse one from sleep followed by ...a small explosion then... an entertaining fire.
Sometimes sail vessel obnoxious spews out enough carbon monoxide to extend your sleep time permanently but the brain numbing noise usually works to keep you from drifting ...it’s a kind of safety device.
The constant rattle of the jig saw pipe contraption supporting the oil dripping chunk of rust on the stern works to alert you that there is still time to move before “obnoxious “ starts to drag anchor on to you.
Kind of a hillbilly anchor alarm.
Happy trails to you kimosabi
Mark and his “hi ho silver” manatee crew

[Key Wester]

An outboard is designed for marine use, a portable gasoline genset is not. Here's some differences on the genset -

The Spark arrester is not designed for marine use. Gasoline tank, not for marine use, as is the carberator and associated fuel plumbing. The exhaust system is not designed for marine use. The unit is not ignition protected.

Running a portable gas genset on the transom or arch is NOT "exactly the same as running an outboard engine". as you can see from above. I still don't understand why anyone would think that having a non USCG certified gasoline genset aboard is an acceptable risk. Joe D

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Key Wester

An outboard is designed for marine use, a portable gasoline genset is not. Here's some differences on the genset -

The Spark arrester is not designed for marine use. Gasoline tank, not for marine use, as is the carberator and associated fuel plumbing. The exhaust system is not designed for marine use. The unit is not ignition protected.

Running a portable gas genset on the transom or arch is NOT "exactly the same as running an outboard engine". as you can see from above. I still don't understand why anyone would think that having a non USCG certified gasoline genset aboard is an acceptable risk. Joe D

Still waiting for a link to a "USCG Certified generator"

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Key Wester

An outboard is designed for marine use, a portable gasoline genset is not. Here's some differences on the genset -

The Spark arrester is not designed for marine use. Gasoline tank, not for marine use, as is the carberator and associated fuel plumbing. The exhaust system is not designed for marine use. The unit is not ignition protected.

Running a portable gas genset on the transom or arch is NOT "exactly the same as running an outboard engine". as you can see from above. I still don't understand why anyone would think that having a non USCG certified gasoline genset aboard is an acceptable risk. Joe D

Spark arrestor: please point out the exact difference between the spark arrestor on a Honda EU2000 and an outboard, as well as describe how the Honda muffler spark can cause a problem with a generator on deck

Gasoline tank: everyone DOES use an outboard gasoline tank to run a generator on deck. So you are way, WAY off there.

Carburetor: please detail the exact difference between the carburetor on an outboard engine and the one on a generator. (Hint, there is none)

Exhaust system: yup. Outboards send it down into the water for more quiet operation. Doesn’t matter for safety.

Ignition protection: that’s not applicable to anything outside the hull. Or do you not understand the regs?



People accept the risk because it’s the same risk as using an outboard or batteries or wiring or stoves and ovens. Also they look at the stats. These things are running non stop on thousands of boats all the time. Zero problems.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Still waiting for a link to a "USCG Certified generator"

I’ll throw my hat on this ring too.

Waiting on a CFR requiring ignition protection outdoors on deck. Ha ha.

This Keys guy is passionate, but not well read.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I'd probably lean towards Champion (Honda is nice but overpriced beyond any improvement in quality). Champions are widespread now, so parts should be more accessible. I would also probably lean toward a single 3000-3500w generator over 2 smaller generators. Less to maintain.

Ignore those who say you should live like you are tent camping. Nothing wrong with having comforts on the boat. If you are a racer, sure, you don't want anything that might compromise peak performance but for a typical cruiser it's not an issue to add an arch to mount stuff as long as it doesn't get so excessive.

Make sure it's a safe installation, so the exhaust doesn't wind up in the cabin via the station wagon effect (get a CO detector anyway).

We had a 2400w Yamaha on the back corner of our small 34ft catamaran and it was a great addition.

"Ignore those who say you should live like you are tent camping. Nothing wrong with having comforts on the boat. If you are a racer, sure, you don't want anything that might compromise peak performance but for a typical cruiser it's not an issue to add an arch to mount stuff as long as it doesn't get so excessive"

There is nothing wrong with wanting the comforts of home. I don't advocate tent camping as a way to live aboard a boat and besides, it is not just racers who value good sailing characteristics; anyone who enjoys sailing, actual sailing, should want to retain the good sailing characteristics of their boat.

Any arch added to the back of a monohull is bad for the sailing characteristics s. "as long as it is not extreme"? All arches are put there to place stuff on which doesn’t fit anywhere else. So it is adding weight and windage where it is detrimental.

Even if you power everywhere, that weight and windage affects you. As soon as you start to go into waves you boat will hobby horse more.

When you finally make it around that cape motoring against a headwind and get to port you will be bitching about how rough it was and you couldn't make for than 2 knots. Meanwhile the guy who kept his boat light and lean and who tacked around that cape was making 6 knots and a VMG of 4.5kts and he thought it was a great sail.
.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Key Wester

An outboard is designed for marine use, a portable gasoline genset is not. Here's some differences on the genset -

The Spark arrester is not designed for marine use. Gasoline tank, not for marine use, as is the carberator and associated fuel plumbing. The exhaust system is not designed for marine use. The unit is not ignition protected.

Running a portable gas genset on the transom or arch is NOT "exactly the same as running an outboard engine". as you can see from above. I still don't understand why anyone would think that having a non USCG certified gasoline genset aboard is an acceptable risk. Joe D

Key Wester, get real. The certifications you talk about might be valuable if the generator was run in an explosive or enclosed environment. Outside, on deck, requiring them would be excessive.

Anyhow, there are thousands of boaters running Honda gensets on deck on their boats without problems. We don't hear about fires or explosions, do you?

Finally, while I don't see the need for any genset, I don't even like them, if an owner if a 35' boat wants a genset, for them your proposal of an Onan, Northen Lights or a Fisher Panda is not quite practical. They are going to be heavier, take up space inside the boat, require a lot of plumbing, and be much more expensive. Fine, if you've got the boat and money for one, OK, but it is a bit arrogant to say that nobody else should carry a genset unless they can install the full boat, USCG certified, models you prefer.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by wingssail

"Ignore those who say you should live like you are tent camping. Nothing wrong with having comforts on the boat. If you are a racer, sure, you don't want anything that might compromise peak performance but for a typical cruiser it's not an issue to add an arch to mount stuff as long as it doesn't get so excessive"

There is nothing wrong with wanting the comforts of home. I don't advocate tent camping as a way to live aboard a boat and besides, it is not just racers who value good sailing characteristics; anyone who enjoys sailing, actual sailing, should want to retain the good sailing characteristics of their boat.

Any arch added to the back of a monohull is bad for the sailing characteristics s. "as long as it is not extreme"? All arches are put there to place stuff on which doesn’t fit anywhere else. So it is adding weight and windage where it is detrimental.

Even if you power everywhere, that weight and windage affects you. As soon as you start to go into waves you boat will hobby horse more.

When you finally make it around that cape motoring against a headwind and get to port you will be bitching about how rough it was and you couldn't make for than 2 knots. Meanwhile the guy who kept his boat light and lean and who tacked around that cape was making 6 knots and a VMG of 4.5kts and he thought it was a great sail.
.

Sorry but you are talking wild exaggeration (2kts vs 6kts come on). Yes, there will be small cost in performance but nothing like you imply.

If you don't want an arch on your boat, don't get one but don't try to scare other people off because you find arches offensive to your sensibilities.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Key Wester, get real. The certifications you talk about might be valuable if the generator was run in an explosive or enclosed environment. Outside, on deck, requiring them would be excessive.

Hint. USCG does not certify generators. He is incorrect.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Key Wester

The Spark arrester is not designed for marine use. Gasoline tank, not for marine use, as is the carberator and associated fuel plumbing. The exhaust system is not designed for marine use. The unit is not ignition protected.

What exactly are the issues with these items for marine use?

What makes the gasoline tank not for marine use? Or the Carberator?

I've cleaned the carbs on both outboards and portable generators...I'm not seeing anything designed for marine use on an outboard.

Now on my inboard V8s, yes, there are differences. The carbs have a backfire arrestor, the alternator is designed to eliminate sparks, etc... but that's because it's intended to operate inside the hull where fumes would be trapped. That's not the case with outboards or portable generators.

The more you go on, the more I'm convinced, you simply have no clue what you are talking about.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Sorry but you are talking wild exaggeration (2kts vs 6kts come on). Yes, there will be small cost in performance but nothing like you imply.

If you don't want an arch on your boat, don't get one but don't try to scare other people off because you find arches offensive to your sensibilities.

Valhalla360, The number I threw out are not wild exaggerations. And it's not because they offend my sensibilities that I don't like arches on the back of boats which were not designed for them.

The truth is those numbers (particularly the 2kts motoring to weather) are what I hear time and time again. You see, in the area where I am now there is this stretch of ocean, including a couple of capes, (one being Cabo Corrientes) which have reputations for being nasty to get around when the wind is against you, and coming north it often is. So all winter long (winter is our boating season) people come into the dock covered in salt and moaning about how horrible it was rounding Cabo Corrientes. They commonly complain, "It was so nasty we could hardly make 2knots. We had to endure that for hours." They were motoring into a nasty chop. People wait for days or weeks for a weather window, meaning a couple of days with no wind.

The idea of sailing around that cape, into the wind, does not even enter anyone's, head. "What, sail upwind? Into waves? My boat doesn't like to do that." Says the guy with a huge arch, two big anchors on the bow, a in-mast roller furling main, a row of jerry cans on deck, and two SUP's clamped on outside the railing, not to mention a 11ft rib and outboard motor on the back somewhere.

Meanwhile a guy with a basic Beneteau with a clean topside, a small jib, and a reefed main is tacking up that coast and rounding that cape going 5-6 knots and making a VMG of 3-4 knots. Yes, he's going to say it was a tough sail, and he's also going to be coated with salt, but he's going to arrive exhilarated and glad he made the trip and feeling like a sailor, not dreading the next time he has to do it.

I'm not trying to scare anyone. I am just pointing our that if you like sailing, rather than motoring, you'll avoid arches and the such.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by wingssail

The idea of sailing around that cape, into the wind, does not even enter anyone's, head. "What, sail upwind? Into waves? My boat doesn't like to do that." Says the guy with a huge arch, two big anchors on the bow, a in-mast roller furling main, a row of jerry cans on deck, and two SUP's clamped on outside the railing, not to mention a 11ft rib and outboard motor on the back somewhere.

Originally Posted by wingssail

Meanwhile a guy with a basic Beneteau with a clean topside, a small jib, and a reefed main is tacking up that coast and rounding that cape going 5-6 knots and making a VMG of 3-4 knots. Yes, he's going to say it was a tough sail, and he's also going to be coated with salt, but he's going to arrive exhilarated and glad he made the trip and feeling like a sailor, not dreading the next time he has to do it.

Clean topsides should be part of good seamanship