Honda Portable Generator: Will This Work?

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Interesting idea.

Guess you could also hang it with some bungee from the boom.
At least vibrations should be gone that way.

Hanging from the boom is a good idea. Maybe even swing the boom out as if running.

[a64pilot]

I’ve seen one hanging from the boom of a ketch, at least I think it was from the boom.
A 3.5 KW isn’t oversized for a smaller boat, most boats have a 30 amp electrical system, and a 3.5 on paper is 29.1 amps. I can tell mine is struggling above 25 amps and it purrs like a kitten at 15 amps or so, which is one AC running and the battery charger in float, batteries charged. So to duplicate shore power, you need a 3.5 as a min., cause you can’t pull 30 amps out of a single 30 amp shore power cord without burning it up either. More than a 3.5 on a 30 amp boat just means that the generator never runs at much more than 50% power even with the electrical system maxed out.
What I can’t figure out, is why do most of the bigger Cats have 12 KW generators or larger? 12KW is 100 amps, what boat can draw 100 amps?
I have dual chargers and can charge 185 amps, which is also pretty close to high 20’s in amps, so it’s all the 3.5 can handle.
But anyway I know a lot of people think a Diesel likes to be run hard as in nearly wide open, but it’s not the case, if you want your motor to run for a looong time, run it at 50% power or less, but not zero load. Assuming it makes 28 amps wide open, then 50% is 14 amps, and that is one 16KBTU AC and the charger in float.
Watermaker adds 8 amps on top of that a second 6KW AC another 5 amps.

So it depends on what your wanting to run, My Honda is 13.3 amps rated continuously, Watermaker draws 8, leaving 5 amps to charge batteries, so charging at 30 to 40 amps pretty much taps out the Honda, with nothing but the charger running the Honda can charge at 100 amps, but it’s busting a gut to do so, turn it down it 80 amps and it’s much quieter.

The Nexgen weighs 160 lbs without sound shield and 200 with one. It burns about one quart an hour at half load and twice that at max output, and cost I think about $6,000 uninstalled. It turns 2850 RPM and drives the generator head via a serpentine belt, which never slips and I don’t know how long it lasts but as it only goes around two large diameter pulleys, it ought to be a long time. I removed the impeller water pump and replaced it with a March Airconditioner pump, which I think it better for a number of reasons.
The generator is mounted on a set of rubber isolators that mount to two aluminum bars that you mount to the boat, but if you ask Nexgen will sell you another set for a good price, then you can mount those bars to a second set of isolators making the generator double isolated to absorb even more vibrations, as it’s a single cylinder motor double isolating is I believe a good idea.

[Augi]

Hopefully, a Honda portable will suffice and will not have to go this route but while we are on the topic below are links that show the pricing for the Phasor and the Next Gen smallest generators that have 2 cylinders.

Both run at 1800 RPM. Therefore are simpler, quieter, have less vibration and weigh 290 and 270 lbs respectfully. Both are approx. $1K-$2K more than each company's smaller, 1 cylinder version.

The difference in weight is approx. 75 lbs between their 1 cylinder and two cylinder versions. The two cylinder versions are slightly larger.

It sounds like if one uses his/her generator every day for a couple of hours, one would be well advised to go for a two cylinder generator that runs at 1800 RPM.

There seems to be a clear cut consensus that the Northern Lights 5 KW 2 cylinder model is the best in the category. But costs approx. $4K more, weighs approx. 100lbs more, size is slightly greater than then two models above.


https://www.bobandannies.com/default...oredir=1&img=2

https://www.boundlessoutfitters.com/...-ucm2-5.5e.htm

https://www.northern-lights.com/wp-c...2-M673LD3G.pdf

Northern Lights Marine Generator 5KW

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by Augi

Hopefully, a Honda portable will suffice and will not have to go this route but while we are on the topic below are links that show the pricing for the Phasor and the Next Gen smallest generators that have 2 cylinders.



Both run at 1800 RPM. Therefore are simpler, quieter, have less vibration and weigh 290 and 270 lbs respectfully. Both are approx. $1K-$2K more than each company's smaller, 1 cylinder version.



The difference in weight is approx. 75 lbs between their 1 cylinder and two cylinder versions. The two cylinder versions are slightly larger.



It sounds like if one uses his/her generator every day for a couple of hours, one would be well advised to go for a two cylinder generator that runs at 1800 RPM.



There seems to be a clear cut consensus that the Northern Lights 5 KW 2 cylinder model is the best in the category. But costs approx. $4K more, weighs approx. 100lbs more, size is slightly greater than then two models above.





https://www.bobandannies.com/default...oredir=1&img=2



https://www.boundlessoutfitters.com/...-ucm2-5.5e.htm



https://www.northern-lights.com/wp-c...2-M673LD3G.pdf



Northern Lights Marine Generator 5KW

I wish there is a way to buy this from Singapore but I guess import taxes would kill you....
http://marineenginestall.com/index.p...product_id=348

[rslifkin]

Keep in mind, the small marine diesel generators are more efficient in terms of fuel per kw-hour than the Honda units. I ran the numbers in a thread on here a few months ago. So if you plan to use it a lot and have a good way to install one, the lower noise, not needing gas and lower fuel burn might make it worth it.

To put into perspective how inefficient the air cooled engines on the Honda generators are, they're less efficient than the old flathead gas Onan on my boat. Compare to any diesel unit and you're talking a 15 - 20+ percent difference depending on load.

From what I know, the Phasor generators are quite solid. They're Kubota powered like the Nexgen.

[Mike Banks]

Nyet! Nein!! Non!!! No Bloody Way!!!!

NEVER run any internal combustion engine or any fuel burning heater below decks unless it has a sealed exhaust system vented to the outside of the vessel, and preferably downwind, and an air inlet from an area which is provided with a ventilator. (All cabin heat sources should have enclosed fireboxes and their own inlet air and exhaust systems)

I would never try to run a Honda gen-set on propane. Propane is dangerous enough as it is when used for cooking or heating water. When I ran mine, during cyclones and storms when hiding in remote mangrove creeks, I had it lashed on deck with its own waterproof cover, and I only visited it to re-fil the fuel tank--which happened every few hours of use. It plugged in to the marina power inlet. Always point the exhaust down wind. Honda used to make a flexible exhaust extension for their gen-sets so one could use them indoors or in confined spaces, but I never s trusted them. I have not seen one for many years now.

[alansmith]

Augi, I have a trimaran with a 10 hp outboard and propane for cooking. I have 100 watts of solar. I also have 2 golf cart batteries that are wired in series that are 240 amp 6volt. I have a Honda gen also. I don’t need ac.

I agree with all others, and you already concur, about explosion, overheating, and carbon monoxide dangers. But I have gas on board for my primary propulsion. So, I’ve already accepted the risk of gas. I can tell u are careful just by how you write. Let me just say that you can’t beat the little buggers to death. One of the finest pieces of equipment you can own. Is ‘due diligence’ required? You bet your bippy. But with my Honda I can charge batteries up if I go through a series of cloudy days. I have an Engel fridge that I use only for my frozens. I use a Yeti like box for things like yogurt, cheese, luncheon meats, and a few cold ones. I use a one liter plastic bottle to keep things cold. Then swap it every 4-5 days with the frozen one in the Engel.

I have an umbrella that I tie down over the Honda when at anchor just in case of rain and early morning dew. When underway the Honda resides ( already cool) in the lazarette. The Honda is bagged and gas vent closed. I have a fire extinguisher in the appropriate spot if things go sideways on me. I am diligent for maintenance.

One other thing.. because no one wants to freaking die. Make sure you have an escape route from sleeping quarters if something bad happened. Maybe you heard about the Scuba boat last year off of the Channel Islands that caught fire and many many people burned to death. No way for them to escape. Escape routes that are blocked with dingy, paddle boards, sail bags.... don’t be one of those caught in a self made trap.

I am happy with my 1k dollar investment. Trimarans have to be kept lite. I’ve had mine for three years and not even a second of trouble. Show me an engine or vehicle that hasn’t had recalls. That is why we have recalls. It only means that a few people experienced problems and Honda took care of the issues. I have a recall sitting in my desk right now from Honda. Waiting for Covid to settle down before taking it over to the Honda motorcycle shop for update. I have two Honda’s. But use one in boat and one at home for PG&E next shut off. I bring my Honda home when I leave the boat. Love the damn thing. N

[Augi]

Originally Posted by DanCan

I wish there is a way to buy this from Singapore but I guess import taxes would kill you....
NORTHERN LIGHTS M673LD3 - 5kW/4.5kW MARINE GENERATOR

I am seeing $12K+ in the USA for the Northern Lights 5 KW? I wonder if there is a "catch"?

Depends what boat I go with, but I think the weight of the northern lights won't work and maybe the size.

With a $7K difference, if that price is real, it could work for a lot of people. If duty and shipping are $4K it would be worth it, if the warranty is good, and there is not a "catch".

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by Augi

I am seeing $12K+ in the USA for the Northern Lights 5 KW? I wonder if there is a "catch"?



Depends what boat I go with, but I think the weight of the northern lights won't work and maybe the size.



With a $7K difference, if that price is real, it could work for a lot of people. If duty and shipping are $4K it would be worth it if warranty is good, and there is not a "catch".

I thought the same and I really have no idea how can they sell the same at almost 1/3 of the price you pay in the USA. No idea.

[alansmith]

Rslifkin, you are one hundred percent correct in most of your facts about operational costs of gas versus diesel. Diesel absolutely safer than gas. I hear you correctly.

Now my case. You state you had to go add fuel every couple of hours. If that is true may I ask what Honda you speak of? I fill mine up, at the house , when PG&E shuts power off and I run refrigerator, computer, and fan on central air for almost a full 8 hours. I can’t conceive how a boat would use more ampage then that. If you were using creative writing to make your point ... smile ... I’ve been know to take artistic license a time or two myself. No harm done.

Here’s the thing about Hondas... they are well engineered and very excellent price for what you get. I’ve got a thousand bucks in mine. I can take mine in the car camping to run tools, lighting, fridges, etc. Can you take your boat diesel generator with you to perform other duties? On a new install ... what are you looking at for installation? Generator must be 5k to 10k. How about your costs for routing diesel fuel to the new puppy? How about cooling water to your baby? How about the costs to build a bed for her? Routing of circuits, breakers, fuses, and what not? How much fun are you having when you have to get into the engine bay and deal with oil filters, oil changes, air filters, and the like? I’ve been in plenty of engine rooms and it is hard enough to deal with most primary engines. The generator is even less likely to be easily accessed than the primary beast. They aren’t built to last as long as your KubotA, Yanmar, or Volvo. When they go sideways on you... and eventually they will... are you skilled enough to tear it apart and replace piston sleeves, injectors, rods, and the like? a small percentage of us sailors have that skill set. To perform that on the boat, in-suite, I want no part of that Shizzle show.

I can do all my maintenance in the cockpit of changing oil and filters with no cramped claustrophobic dripping sweat off my brow into my eyes. I can loan my Honda to my new buddy so he can use his orbital sander. I can do many things you will never be able to do with your setup. I have portability. You do not. I have a multi usable platform. You do not. My costs are probably 20 percent of what you laid out. I don’t have horrible experiences in the engine bay that you will have doing yoga. And all of that is true and everyone reading this knows I am not glamorizing my case. There is a reason the Honda is the gold standard and the best selling gas generator on this planet. Because it is a cost effective and reliable source of energy. Yes, it costs more to run per kW hour. Yes you have to plan about emissions. Yes you have more inherent risk with gas than diesel. But I would be willing to bet donuts to dollars that lithium batteries have caused more boat fire than the Honda. Long live Honda’s. Smile... just me trying to educate people of why some sailors use Hondas and find it to be absolutely the correct tool for the job.

[Franziska]

To sum it up, the small air-cooled genset have the advantage of beeing roughly:

+Half the weight of a similar strong water cooled genset installation
+Half the price (or less!) of a similar strong water cooled genset installation
+Requiring very little space for storage

Biggest drawbacks:
-Need to be used more cautious, due to more volatile fuel
-Need to be kept reasonably level in operations
-Should not be installed & operated inside

You can run them many many hours until their higher fuel usage costs outweighs the much higher price of a water cooled diesel genset.

As always, renewable energies and energy efficiency of equipment is preferred, but for now the small air cooled gensets have their fields of usage.

[a64pilot]

I don’t think the Honda uses much more fuel. It’s claimed to run for 3 to 8 hours depending on load and holds a gallon of fuel. My little Nexgen burns a quart an hour at 50% load so four hours per gallon/
Honda 3.2 hours making 13.3 amps on 1 gl of fuel
Nexgen 4 hours making 14 or so amps on 1 gl of fuel.

I think the difference if any can be put down to measuring errors, I’m certain that the Nexgen fuel consumption wasn’t as scientifically derived as Honda’s.

Little Honda is not inefficient, it’s relatively inefficient at high load, but gains in efficiency at lower loads when the RPM comes down, so if you only need 6 or 8 amps or so, I bet the Honda burns less fuel than the Nexgen, cause the Honda can go as long as 8 hours on 1 gl and the Nexgen can’t. Plus if you only need a couple of hundred watts, the Honda purrs at idle, and a Diesel should be loaded a little more than that, but the Honda is happy

Now many put a lot of stock into the Honda varying RPM, but astonishingly it’s lowest RPM with eco mode on and zero load is 3000 RPM, and it goes up to I think 4300 RPM eco mode switch off and at max continuous power, now it will get up past 5000 RPM or so if you overload it, and it will produce at least 17 amps of power, but your exceeding its limits, and I don’t know for how long it will do that, but I’ve seen it make 20 or so amps before I realized I left the water heater breaker on and turned it off.
It’s rated for a 2000 for 16 amps max, and 13.3 continuously, but as I said it will make much more.

Where that matters is start up loads for a watermaker pump or airconditioner or whatever, the Honda can jump up to 20 amps for a short time, most others can’t.
The Nexgen due I’m sure to its high flywheel inertia can take a 70 amp surge. The Nexgen 3.5 and 5.5 are identical generators, what limits the 3.5 is engine power, but the generator head is fine making 5.5 kw, if the little motor could.

On edit, the Nexgen 5.5 is not an 1800 rpm motor, it turns 2800 just like the 3.5

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Augi

I am seeing $12K+ in the USA for the Northern Lights 5 KW? I wonder if there is a "catch"?

Depends what boat I go with, but I think the weight of the northern lights won't work and maybe the size.

With a $7K difference, if that price is real, it could work for a lot of people. If duty and shipping are $4K it would be worth it, if the warranty is good, and there is not a "catch".

Care with the specs. I don't know the NL product line well, but their workhorse 6kw/60hz - $12k with aoundshield - can also be purchased as a 5kw/50hz generator that turns at 1500 rpm vs 1800 rpm.

The 5kw/4.5kw NL should be different. Here is a link to a Miami based company with the same setup as the Singapore one but for $7500 including sound shield. If true, a solid deal.

https://citimarinestore.com/en/marin...enclosure.html

I'm on my phone so not easy to check NL website for specific models. Sounds like the OP does not have space for a NL and weight is also an issue. Would certainly be the ticket for him though. The Rio has to be as hot and humid and a dogs mouth.

[SV Toucan]

I have a Honda 2.8 kw inverter generator that fits under the cockpit table in my Hunter 35.5. The shore power cord 30 amp twist lock fits to the generator no other parts needed. I have used it to power an electric space heater overnight with no issues. I place the generator on starboard side cockpit seat exhausts out to starboard, outside the boat. With all ports closed, cockpit companion way closed, there is no low point where heavier than air gases can enter the boat. Even so, I use CO detectors and have had no problem. Generator is not near any fuel storage, simplest installation, no Rube Goldberg BS. IMHO if you keep it simple, common sense, only as needed, you can be safe. Have fun and don't try to be perfect. Alternative would have been additional blankets and a hot lady to stay warm.😉

[SV Toucan]

Another thing, if concerned about no airflow to move exhaust away from boat, add a fan to blow it away, there are ac and dc outlets right there.