How to Make a Suitcase Generator Safe for Storage Below?

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That seems like a great idea, but wouldn't it require a custom made part?

I haven't converted one myself but, I don't think much if anything besides the kit itself is needed other than a bit of hose and clamps to bypass internal tank. Maybe a few extra bucks would have the connectors matching the type on the dinghy outboard, use the same tank for both use's.

[Pete7]

Well some good news, there is a new model Honda out, its the 22i which may give you the extra kick you need. 1800w from memory. Now can you buy one in southern UK? well you might have to order it early to ensure its in stock as dealers will want to off load the older model at full price first.

Specifications | Inverter series | Generators | Products | Industrial | Honda

If the WM vendor could sell you one then wrapping them both up with a VAT refund would be good.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by uncle stinkybob

I haven't converted one myself but, I don't think much if anything besides the kit itself is needed other than a bit of hose and clamps to bypass internal tank. Maybe a few extra bucks would have the connectors matching the type on the dinghy outboard, use the same tank for both use's.

That's a great idea

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I had solar on my last boat and loved it. It's awesome. But I've worked hard and spent a lot of money to make this boat into an upwind sailing machine, and just would not and will sign up for the windage.

"Some flexible panels" -- given the relatively large consumption, is it realistic to try to get meaningful power out of some flexible panels which are not permanently installed anywhere? I had a Rutland 802 wind generator for a while which wouldn't even cover self discharge of the battery bank (420a/h * 24v). It was totally useless. Wouldn't "some flexible panels" be the same situation? I'm open minded.

I get the low wind age, etc. I don't get putting petrol devices below decks or varying lots of petrol or pouring petrol offshore. Any extra solar would only be for light use in your case. There's no need to deliver full power backup as number 3 backup device.

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

For over 11 years, I've stored Mr. Honda in the starboard lazzerette, with out draining the fuel. While I would never store a Jerry Jug of gas below deck, the honda's tank is protected from damage by the case of the generator. In addition the fuel fill cap has a lever/valve to close the vent and the cap is well threaded and seals air tight. (unlike the easily striped threads of a plastic jerry can).

Is there a danger of storing fuel in the Honda below deck. Sure. Everything has danger. Myself with some experience with that engineering thingy, consider the danger of a fuel leak from a honda 2000i generator, safely stored below, to be no greater then a fire from either diesel leaking or a shorted wire (those pesky circuit breakers sometimes are defective and don't trip either).

It's just another thing to check and be aware of.

x2
This is what I have done for a few years with no noticeable smell of fuel. I prefer to run the Honda dry before storage but that doesn't always happen. so haven't worried too much about it. However, every time I open the lazerette I check for fuel smell. So far not problems.

I'm Jealous! DockHead, that's going to be an awesome adventure cruise!

[Jammer]

Hi, Dockhead. I offer you some Things to Consider.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What do you guys do about that? Pour the fuel back into the jug, then run it dry? But there's still some fuel in the system after you do that.

Is there a solution?

I do not ever pour fuel back into the jug. If I defuel something, I discard the fuel (usually by open burning), because I cannot be sure it is free from contamination. It is usually possible to plan operation in such a way that there isn't much fuel left over, and just run the generator until the fuel is exhausted.

Gasoline's stability is temperature dependent. If you are in higher latitudes, where the temperature in your storage area will stay cool, the gasoline will remain stable for a comparatively long period of time. In tropical areas, the gasoline will deteriorate in a matter of weeks or months. I would defuel for this reason, if you are not going to operate the generator regularly.

If you are uncomfortable with the residual gasoline, I would suggest a propane conversion. There are high-quality propane conversions available for both the Honda and Yamaha generators, and the Yamaha ones are available with the conversion installed by a dealer. Once converted, the generators can be run on either propane or gasoline. You would plumb the generator into your existing propane system much as you would a gas grill.

Obviously, propane storage poses its own set of tradeoffs. You could conceivably run propane routinely and maintain a gasoline reserve for emergency use.

A fact to consider is that the exhaust from these has a high concentration of carbon monoxide, which poses hazards of accumulation below decks. There have been fatalities. It is usually not possible to position a portable generator in a location where the exhaust will be blown away from the companionway in all reasonably foreseeable wind conditions, so you would want to have several locations in mind, with securing hardware and electrical connections thought through.

I have had suitcase generators in the past and currently have my lifestyle, boats, and RVs set up in such a way that no generator is necessary.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I had solar on my last boat and loved it. It's awesome. But I've worked hard and spent a lot of money to make this boat into an upwind sailing machine, and just would not and will sign up for the windage.

"Some flexible panels" -- given the relatively large consumption, is it realistic to try to get meaningful power out of some flexible panels which are not permanently installed anywhere? I had a Rutland 802 wind generator for a while which wouldn't even cover self discharge of the battery bank (420a/h * 24v). It was totally useless. Wouldn't "some flexible panels" be the same situation? I'm open minded.

If you're above 60 degrees then you won't get much solar from panels mounted flat, because the sun will never be overhead.

You have 10 kw of batteries (420 * 24 / 1000). As a very general rule, you could expect to get 5x the hourly output of a solar panels on a typical day. So if you had 400w of solar panels you could expect to get 2kw (400 x 5 / 1000) of charging on a typical day, which would be 20% of your bank capacity -- nothing to sneeze at.

You could easily have 3 or 4 panels totaling 400 watts set up so that you can attach them -- tilted toward the sun -- to your lifelines or pushpit, then keep them below when not needed. No windage except when needed, no fuel required.

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's a great idea

here ya go. 5 bucks at gomarine. I'm buying a suitcase gen soon, I'm going to set it up like this.

[john61ct]

What exactly is that? Links, and ideally a detailed explanation, would be appreciated

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jammer

If you're above 60 degrees then you won't get much solar from panels mounted flat, because the sun will never be overhead.

You have 10 kw of batteries (420 * 24 / 1000). As a very general rule, you could expect to get 5x the hourly output of a solar panels on a typical day. So if you had 400w of solar panels you could expect to get 2kw (400 x 5 / 1000) of charging on a typical day, which would be 20% of your bank capacity -- nothing to sneeze at.

You could easily have 3 or 4 panels totaling 400 watts set up so that you can attach them -- tilted toward the sun -- to your lifelines or pushpit, then keep them below when not needed. No windage except when needed, no fuel required.

So you can get 2kW/h a day out of a 400w panel? That's amazing. If this is really true, then you're right -- I need to revisit this.

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by john61ct

What exactly is that? Links, and ideally a detailed explanation, would be appreciated

it's an example of one of the many type of outboard fuel line connector. This happens to be the type my outboard uses so it will be what I will consider using when and if I remove the built in fuel tank from a portable generator. an easy option if you want to readly store the gen below without having to drain internal tank or run dry. Use the same fuel tank for dinghy outboard and generator, my dinghy outboard is a 4 stroke, the honda is a 4 stroke. I'm carrying fuel for the dinghy anyway.

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by uncle stinkybob

there are kits made for Honda and most any small portable that allow the use of an outboard motor type fuel tank. It should not be difficult to remove the built in tank entirely, run it on external tank, run carb dry when time to store below.

I have this system and it works by vacuum through the cap. The gen tank will fill all the way up from the Aux tank. I have often wondered if the hose from the aux tank could be teed into the fuel line of the generator with a small valve to switch between them. Sometimes you want the portability of the gen tank.

I really like this setup for long runs without worry.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So you can get 2kW/h a day out of a 400w panel? That's amazing. If this is really true, then you're right -- I need to revisit this.

Rough averages, yes.

For a 400w panel, you get 0.4 kwh for every hour it's in full, direct sun. Typically the sun shines more than an hour a day, of course, and the panels will produce some output (far below the rated output though) even in cloudy weather or when the sun is near the horizon.

The "5 hours of sun a day" average is a very rough average for middle latitudes with typical weather and fixed-angle panels. Near the equator in desert conditions, you would get quite a bit more. If you adjust the panels to face the sun every day, you get slightly more. If you adjust them multiple times a day, you get slightly more than that. In high latitudes during the winter, you would get less. When the weather is cloudy, you would get less. If there are shadows on the panels, that will reduce the output a great deal. In very hot climates, the output is reduced.

There's a calculator at PVWatts Calculator that allows you to specify a location and some design parameters, that will use historical weather data to determine average output for each month of the year. You may find it useful. It includes system losses and inverter losses totaling about 25% in its calculations. That makes its estimates a tad pessimistic, since most systems aren't that lossy, especially on boats.

[Colin A]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

For over 11 years, I've stored Mr. Honda in the starboard lazzerette, with out draining the fuel. While I would never store a Jerry Jug of gas below deck, the honda's tank is protected from damage by the case of the generator. In addition the fuel fill cap has a lever/valve to close the vent and the cap is well threaded and seals air tight. (unlike the easily striped threads of a plastic jerry can).

Is there a danger of storing fuel in the Honda below deck. Sure. Everything has danger. Myself with some experience with that engineering thingy, consider the danger of a fuel leak from a honda 2000i generator, safely stored below, to be no greater then a fire from either diesel leaking or a shorted wire (those pesky circuit breakers sometimes are defective and don't trip either).

It's just another thing to check and be aware of.

The Honda tank does seem to seal very well by IN-laws keep one in their basement when not using and I have never smelled a whiff of gas down there.

[Bill Seal]

Having a hand-start generator on board would seem like a good idea if you're in a remote location and stupidly run your batteries down. One might have kept the Yankee off Rarotonga reef when they couldn't start the generator or main engine.