Illustrated Guide to Solar Installations on Boats

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Exactly, My heavy rub rail on Stargazer is 304 polished to a mirror finish.
Mini grinder, various fine cloth polishing discs and that Green block of wax that you mix with water to apply. Rub rail has held its shine for years

I have in the past for metal polishing used a leather wheel and a block of jewelers rouge, primarily for gold but also brass and stainless.
My Father was a Dentist and I grew up in his Dental lab, I did a lot of inlay, onlay, crown and bridge work etc.

There are very many polishing compounds, the green one even comes in Dremel packs.
I had never thought to use an angle grinder.

[Pete7]

Folks thanks I will give it a go with the bar keepers friend. I have 4m in length and its box section to polish so don't really fancy hours with a buffer. It's hidden under the solar panel so not visible like a boarding ladder or the rest of the frame.

Pete

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Small quibble. It makes a big difference where the stainless steel is made and how it is made! There are different grades of stainless steel ie 316 and 304.


https://continentalsteel.com/stainless-steel/grades/

Of course there different grades of Stainless, Lots of them,

There is no such thing as marinesed stainless steel is what I said,

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Folks thanks I will give it a go with the bar keepers friend. I have 4m in length and its box section to polish so don't really fancy hours with a buffer. It's hidden under the solar panel so not visible like a boarding ladder or the rest of the frame.



Pete

I like to use the barkeepers friend with a white piece of scotch brite, the white is the gentle one but holds the barkeepers friend very well, better than a rag or a sponge.
I think the white can be used to clean Teflon pots, but not sure. It’s not even remotely as aggressive as the green pad.

[Pete7]

Top tip, thanks. I have a white cleaning pad, it's the one I don't use to clean the hull because it's so soft, weed needs the black one, scuffs the red one.

Pete

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Mr B

There is no Marinised version, Its stainless and thats it,

But it is a good marketing ploy to charge extra, Its Marinised, Hahahaha

Originally Posted by Mr B

Of course there different grades of Stainless, Lots of them,

There is no such thing as marinesed stainless steel is what I said,

Unfortunately, you inferred that there is only one type of stainless. I think the argument is not whether it's marinized. 316 and higher grades are better suited for marine environments regardless of whether there is, or isn't, a process to make them better suited.

It sounds like splitting hairs, but then again, if we went with such generalizations your professed experience would then mislead people into thinking 304 ss is just fine for marine applications. I've replaced a lot of 304 ss hardware with significant corrosion over a relatively short time period.

[motion30]

4. 435 watt sun panels charging tru outback 80 amp controllers feeding 12 t106 gc batteries
Max observed amperage is 135 amps.

[u4ea32]

Originally Posted by Mr B

There is no Marinised version of Anodised aluminium,
Same as stainless steel, There is no Marinised version, Its stainless and thats it,

But it is a good marketing ploy to charge extra, Its Marinised, Hahahaha

FALSE. There absolutely ARE marine grades of stainless, and marine grades of aluminum.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by u4ea32

FALSE. There absolutely ARE marine grades of stainless, and marine grades of aluminum.

CLARIFICATION. There are grades of stainless and aluminum that are more suitable for marine applications for specific uses.

Some suppliers will market the material as "marine grade" simply to guide customers and in some cases charge more than what you would pay otherwise.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_grade_stainless

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by u4ea32

FALSE. There absolutely ARE marine grades of stainless, and marine grades of aluminum.

You want to pay extra for the word Marinised or Marine, Go for it,
Its your money,

[AKA-None]

How about if we use the word anodized?

[aybabtme]

While I agree that there's no "marine grade" beyond the marketing, there's definitely different qualities of SS 316L, Al 6061 or whatever metal grade... with varying % of elements, different rates of impurities and unequal treatment, depending on suppliers. As a regular consumer, I have yet to figure out how one figures out the good stock from the bad one. I think the "marine grade" label is marketing garbage, but at the same time there's not a lot to work with aside from that.

[newburycruisers]

We've got to know many grades and quality of stainless over the years and many of our boats have add-ons vs OEM metal since the early 70s. As an engineer, Ive been intrigued and asked a lot of questions

As many have touched on....quality (or mfg source) is paramount. You can easily find 304L SS that performs better in a marine environment vs. 316L SS. Since this thread is mostly discussing SS TUBE...lets just focus on what to look for when given the options.

1. Surface polish. Most new OEM metalwork has a true mirror polish...as in... if you look very close there is no grain/grind patterns visible. As such, salt spray and other contaminants have nowhere to key into and thus can be wiped clean relatively easily. As you see more grain (or surface scratches) the ability for contaminents to remain on the surface becomes greater. But the caveat here is that 304 or poor quality tube can be polished to a mirror easier....so MFG become criteria #2

2. MFG or Source of the tube. Ive been told there is only one good mfg of SS tube for North America and a few in Europe. A good fabricator will know who they are tell you the merritts of their material consistency (316L is 316L and bends/welds like 316L).
Unfortunately there are quite a few offshore (China et al) that can offer very low quality tube that is falsely graded for very tempting prices. Any reputable fabricator will avoid this stuff like the plague...as even within an order of 50 lengths of tube..there can be major differences in temper, surface finish etc etc. No one wants that phone call that two pcs of tube on an arch are turning black while the rest looks fine.

3. 304 vs 316....this is an age old battle. Lets be honest there are plenty of boats from 1970s (C&Cs would be my example) that have Canadian mfg 304 metal hardware that are lasting just fine. While Tayana's of the same era were also using '304' and are all corroded and crumbling. To make matters even more difficult some fabricators would electropolish their hardware which would make them last even longer (CS Yachts for instance)...sometimes this is where you see the 'marine grade' added into the marketing.

No doubt, 316L is a better choice in today's overall market, but I would take a North American sourced 304 Arch over an offshore sourced 316 Arch. In the end I've been told that the material cost between the two grades is $1-2 per lb.

As for Aluminum Arches; 6061 is the best choice but there are some variabilities in temper strength within that grade. Most aluminum arch mfgrs need to use a low temper to allow for bending. The pipe is usually specially anodized....ie. Bright Anodized to have a really shiny/mirror look (thinner coating than what you'd see on your Harken winches etc). Welds are often just painted with a special aluminized paint. Again we've had many friends go this way and after a few years in the salt they start to look pretty bad and metal fatigue starts to set in if loaded up too much.

On another note.....I must say....

This thread has been incredible and very useful. Just in the midst of purchasing a new boat and seeing where things are in battery and solar technology when we go to outfit her. It seems like LGs 375W panels are looking like the front runner with matching Victron CCs. Lithium has also caught our attention.

Thought I'd share my favourite fabricators ever expanding portfolio, as we most definitely will have one of their arches on the next boat...they are way to useful for all our cruising gear

Beneteau
https://www.flickr.com/photos/325036...57679326407678
Jeanneau
https://www.flickr.com/photos/325036...57707546103694
Catalina
https://www.flickr.com/photos/325036...57679326486618

[David B]

Originally Posted by newburycruisers

We've got to know many grades and quality of stainless over the years and many of our boats have add-ons vs OEM metal since the early 70s. As an engineer, Ive been intrigued and asked a lot of questions

Thought I'd share my favourite fabricators ever expanding portfolio, as we most definitely will have one of their arches on the next boat...they are way to useful for all our cruising gear

Beneteau
https://www.flickr.com/photos/325036...57679326407678
Jeanneau
https://www.flickr.com/photos/325036...57707546103694
Catalina
https://www.flickr.com/photos/325036...57679326486618

Some nice information, and a good resource of photos thank you. Some of the arches look pretty good - some not so …..
You went to a fair bit of trouble, and I am sure will be helpful for many!

[aybabtme]

The arch with integrated folding davit on the Beneteau looks great. I've built my own arch and added a folding davit like that and it works really well. Especially in my case, the dinghy can fit snugly vertically on the arch, so it doesn't accumulate water.

On SS construction, I've built my arch with 304L and haven't yet finished polishing the whole thing. The tubes are doing fine, despite being unpolished 304. The real killer is the welds, and that depends entirely on the welder. I'm an amateur welder so all my welds are corroding. I haven't treated them yet and haven't polished them either, except for 2 welds. The 2 welds that I polished and electropolished aren't corroding. All 304L metal sourced in California (San Leandro Metal). I wouldn't vouch for it since it's been a recent build, but so far so good.