Impossible to Fix Westerbeke? 7.6BTD mocks all repair efforts!

[Exile]

Unless it's a totally unrelated fuel issue or intake blockage, I think the only two switches (not senders) which can (and has) caused shut downs on mine (WB 8.0 WMD) are for oil pressure and coolant. Maybe I forgot one. If you can confirm that both are okay then maybe you should try temporarily bypassing them. Might tell you that it's just a bad switch.

Btw, I'm just a boat owner who has maintained my own onboard WB genset & engines over the years, and not a pro mechanic. Just the approach I might take in the absence of better advice.

Edit: Didn't see the last two posts.

[Tspringer]

I have ordered the following new automatic shutdown switches:

- Engine Water Temp
- Oil Pressure
- Exhaust Temp

I also ordered a new Thermostat.

We did replace the water temp shutdown switch due to its failure and causing shutdown incorrectly about 1.5 years ago. Maybe the new one has gone bad too.

So when these parts arrive, I will install them all. Then I will test each switch in hot water to see which if any fail.

We are also ordering a Honda EU2200 Companion generator that can be run in parallel with our current Honda EU2200i to provide double the power. After discussing this all at length my wife and I agree that there is just no way we can trust the Westerbeke piece of crap. It is not a reliable piece of equipment. At least with a second Honda we can move forward with our cruising plans and view the Westerbeke as a "sometimes it might work" piece of gear but rely on the Honda's as an always ready complete solution.

I'll continue to post until the generator does work correctly. We will not however delay our plans due to this junk.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Tspringer

I have ordered the following new automatic shutdown switches:

- Engine Water Temp
- Oil Pressure
- Exhaust Temp

I also ordered a new Thermostat.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So when these parts arrive, I will install them all. Then I will test each switch in hot water to see which if any fail.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'll continue to post until the generator does work correctly. We will not however delay our plans due to this junk.

A friend once suggested: If you have potentially more than one problem, only fix ONE AT A TIME. Otherwise you'll never know which one was the culprit.


I've read this entire thread and admire you for you efforts. Keep up the good work.

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

A friend once suggested: If you have potentially more than one problem, only fix ONE AT A TIME. Otherwise you'll never know which one was the culprit.

YES -- In general I see the value in this and agree.

But with this generator at this stage it's not just about trying to fix what is broken. It is equally about attempting to get ahead of what is going to fail next because something else IS about to fail next. We need to try and get another season at least from this unit.

This is just how it is with a generator that is in general worn out and beyond its useable number of hours. I think with a Westerbeke about 1,000 hours is all you can expect to get before the entire genset really needs to be replaced. We are at 920 hours so ours is just worn out. I cannot afford to replace it right now so we will throw parts at it to a degree and at some point we will either have to bite the bullet and replace it or just remove it.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by CaptNemoO2

Full disclosure, didn't read the whole thread...

Some ideas to check:
-Is the thermostat working properly?

-Is the temp sender still working properly? Check if the coolant is actually the temperature the gauge is reading.

-A quick look online, I was able to find the service manual for this genset. There is a temperature switch, exhaust temp switch, and an oil pressure switch all tied into the stop solenoid to shut down the engine. Have you checked that these are all working properly? They are wired in series, and it looks like they are probably normally closed switches (solenoid is energized when genset is running). When the engine shuts down, check which of those has an open circuit. That will tell you the condition causing the shut down (engine overheat, exhaust overheat, low oil pressure) or if there is a faulty switch.

-How is the generator head cooled? Air or water? Is there a temp switch on the generator head?Attachment 247113

This. It now sounds like an electrical (sensor) problem.

Now you fixed the coolant issue, (which repeated overheating may have worn out the sensor).

It's tine to look at the shutdown circuit.

[Simi 60]

Have not read all comments but have you burped the coolant circuit?

Our Genset gets an airlock over the temp sender when refilling resulting in auto shutdown ater 10 minutes or so?
Solution is to leave radiator cap off while running and squeeze a coolant hose pumping air out.

Also, electric raw water pump as I mentioned in post 93
Best $140 ever spent.

[Tspringer]

I got all the new kill switches.

So I tried to remove the exhaust temp kill switch first. The first tiny screw that screws into the exhaust elbow holding the temp sensor in place broke off the instant it began to turn, very little pressure applied.

So I stopped. That sensor is still in place, just held by 1 screw instead of 2. Given that the exhaust now gushes tons of water, it seems the exhaust overheating is very unlikely. Removing the exhaust elbow is basically not possible and replacing the switch with broken off mounting screws would definitely require removing the exhaust elbow.

So I moved on to replacing the temp switch and oil pressure switch - got both replaced easy.

Next I ran the generator. I timed it to see how long it took if it shut down and I used my FLIR camera to observe the heat.

It does not appear to be overheating. The exhaust elbow was certainly not overly hot. The thermostat appears to be working fine as the temp on both sides remained constant and not indicative of overheating.

But after just shy of 15 minutes - SHUTDOWN. Same as before.

After it cools down, I am going to try draining the coolant out of the header tank and running it again with the cap off to see if any air may bleed out of it. The only hope I have now is that maybe somehow air is in the system causing an issue. But the FLIR camera did not show this.

I may also try jumping the exhaust temp switch just to try and determine if that is the source of the issue.


Overall though, I am just about done with this generator. After over 40 hours working on it, I have no confidence that it can be fixed at all. Maybe done with this boat entirely. Yes, as one poster said your not a real cruiser until you have sat in the cockpit and cried. Our cruising dreams are dying due to impossible mechanical issues and a lack of a blank check maintenance capability.

I really did not think a genset could be just so worn out it was impossible to make run at under 1,000 hours but that seems to be the case.



Terry

[Bill Seal]

Are you SURE it's being shut down by the shutdown solenoid? Maybe it's a fuel problem. Try monitoring the voltage going to the shutdown solenoid.
Just a thought.

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Are you SURE it's being shut down by the shutdown solenoid? Maybe it's a fuel problem. Try monitoring the voltage going to the shutdown solenoid.
Just a thought.

I am going to make 3 jumpers and bypass all 3 shutdown switches and then see if the problem recurs. 2 of these switches are brand new and installed today but of course that does not mean they are not bad. They can be bad and brand new.

All of the fuel filters have less than 10 hours run time as this genset has not run consistently since its last major service where everything was done back in Feb of this year. By everything I mean ALL filters including all 3 fuel related filters.


I did run the genset again and was sitting ready when it began to shut down again so I could immediately depress the preheat switch which I believe bypasses the shut down switches. Doing that did NOT prevent shutdown but after it shuts down it will start right back up again. Just not for very long.


I've owned a lot of mechanical toys. Boats and cars of all varieties including racecars and Italian exotics and such. Never in my life have I experienced a piece of mechanical equipment that just cannot be made to function correctly no matter what. This Westerbeke takes the cake as the biggest piece of **** I have ever encountered in a long life of owning many varieties of pieces of ****.




Terry

[hpeer]

Terry,

I had a dockmate with a problem generator.
Long story short, under 500 hours (actually I think it was just over 100 hours) and THREE rebuilds. I suggested he ditch it and buy 2 Hondas. He did and later remarked it was a great idea.

Complexity is the killer of dreams, go simple and flexible.

Getting philosophical for a moment;

Be like a water in a stream, flow gently around the rocks.

Or… to quote Winston Churchill…

When going through Hell, keep going.

Don’t get hung up, let it go, not meant to be.

Get a Honda and turn the free space into a wine cellar.

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Terry,

Get a Honda and turn the free space into a wine cellar.

We already have a much used Honda EU2200i. It is the only reason we were able to salvage our season in the Bahamas this past winter.

Regardless of what happens with the Westerbeke we are getting another companion Honda. That way we have a backup and we can run them together to get 4kw total so it speeds up charging and can charge plus run the watermaker at the same time (I hope).

While I want the Westerbeke to be working correctly there is no way we will ever trust it again. Based on the absurd amount of online reading I have done trying to figure this crap out, my opinion of Westerbeke is that in truth anyone is better off without. Any boat with a Westerbeke would be automatically eliminated as a potential purchase for me.


Terry

[Searles]

Try disconnects all the engine sender wiring to engine alarm panel ,leaving starter wiring only ,the shut down signal is possibly a fault in the generator/ alt side of the system ,it may not be engine related .⛵️⚓️

[Lodesman]

Have you checked for loose connections/bad wires in the run circuit?

[CaptNemoO2]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Have you checked for loose connections/bad wires in the run circuit?

This is also a possibility.

Two instances this season:

One friend has a Westerbeke as his propulsion engine. Its a Perkins design, but built by Mazda. He had engine work performed (rear main seal), and on the way back from the mechanic, the engine died. Turns out there was a loose wire going to the electric lift pump that finally gave in. For a while, the boat had issues running well and would occasionally drop revs. Found the loose wire and engine ran better than ever. It must have been an intermittent connection caused by vibration or heat on the loose wire, that would cause the lift pump to stop supplying fuel at a steady rate.

Another friend had me remove and reinstall his Fischer Panda generator to have the generator head replaced and to rebuild the generator compartment. When I reinstalled the genset, I got it primed, but it just wouldn't start. After finding out the FP tech wired up the fault circuit (same setup, temp sensors controlling the fuel pump and solenoid) and fixing that, I got it to fire but couldn't really get it to start running. The relay that controlled the fault circuit had a loose connection. It would work fine when troubleshooting, but the vibrations from cranking caused the intermittent connection closing the solenoid.

TL;DR...

Don't give up hope! It's a fairly simple circuit. It's possible the relay or a loose/corroded connection or broken wire is the culprit. The relay may be opening up when it gets too hot. Also make sure that circuit is getting full voltage. As the heat in the compartment rises, resistance goes up, voltage goes down. A bad connection will only make that worse.

[Bycrick]

The “protection" circuit on the Westerbeke gensets is electrically simple, but convoluted in practice. It’s not just the 3 switches that you mentioned. Those three switches are in series with the STOP switch on the panel. So the circuit starts at the engine, goes up through the panel, back to the motor and only then goes to your 3 switches, and then to the fuel pump and run solenoid. An intermittent break anyplace will shut down the Genset.

In my case, after years of beating my head on a similar problem, I pulled out the whole wiring harness, a two-day job. All the wires had been "extended" with butt-spliced pigtails which were hidden behind built-in panels. Ah, problem solved! No such luck.

The problem was ultimately discovered when I took all the wrapping off the harness and discovered that an invisible hole in the insulation of the stop-circuit wire had allowed enough moisture in over the years to corrode away about 2” of the copper. I only found it because a a slight green stain on the outside of the brown wire. Replacing the entire brown wire and getting rid of the butt-splices finally solved the problem.