Lifeline GPL-4DA Marine Battery Questions/Help

[onefastdaddy]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Do also check the date code on the batteries. It is usually stamped or embossed somewhere near the top edge, often intentionally concealed under a larger label.


If they are the original 2006 batteries....eight years of anything less than stellar care and they will simply be overdue for replacement from cumulative damage.

Good idea to check, although these batteries look the part. I mean they are extremely clean, stickers are new looking, cords on the end to lift them clean (new looking), they look, still, like they are brand new. Also, if the Moorings say they are new I believe them. They have been nothing but incredibly honest in our entire dealings with them. The fact they do not keep receipts isn't being dishonest it's just bad accounting practices or management but that's not really for me to guess or judge them by.

[hellosailor]

"No receipt and I'm not going to be able to get one for these. "
EVERY battery from EVERY maker has a manufacturing date permanently marked on the case. And EVERY manufacturer will honor that date as the "date of purchase" and often throw in an extra month or two, since they know very well how it can take a while for inventory to turn over. JCI was selling 18-month old Optimas at one point, but typically, batteries are made and sold within 60-90 days at the most.
So yes, you already HAVE a 'receipt" for your batteries, you just have to look closely, and sometimes peel back the label on the side, which has been applied OVER that date code, intentionally, most of the time.
If you are not the original purchaser, that's something else again. Warranties are often limited to the original purchaser.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by onefastdaddy

Good idea to check, although these batteries look the part. I mean they are extremely clean, stickers are new looking, cords on the end to lift them clean (new looking), they look, still, like they are brand new. Also, if the Moorings say they are new I believe them. They have been nothing but incredibly honest in our entire dealings with them. The fact they do not keep receipts isn't being dishonest it's just bad accounting practices or management but that's not really for me to guess or judge them by.

Please understand that a 1 year service life on a charter boat is often = to 6-7 years use on your own boat. Last time I was on Tortola I spoke with three charter companies (two lead techs who do this work at each location and one guy who is the owner of the charter company) specifically about charging habits, how long batteries last and what they use. The average amongst the three charter companies was 1-2 years on big cats and 1-3 years on mono's. Most are using 6V batteries these days but as always it is up to owners as to what gets installed..

We chartered a Lagoon 420 and the batteries were 11 months old and totally knackered/dead. Date codes and the service records confirmed when the batteries were installed. 675 Ah's of GC2 golf carts dead in under 1 year. When we left the dock the final words from our "check out guy" were; "Charge when the batteries get to 11.0V, you'll probably need 4 hours per day of charging." ...

Just because these AGM's are "new" or new-ish does not mean they have not been abused... Charter companies murder batteries....

[hellosailor]

And the warranty, as it was, died when Moorings resold the boat to a new owner:

Lifeline Limited Warranty
Warranty Period: Free Replacement Months Pro-rate Months Marine & RV application 12 60 Electric Vehicles 3 6 All Electric Machinery 0 3 All other Applications 3 9

Should the battery become defective due to a manufacturers defect (not merely discharged) within the free replacement period the battery will be replaced no charge. After the free replacement period the battery will be pro-rated as listed above.

The warranty period starts at the time of purchase and applies to the original purchaser of the battery and is non-transferable. If the original receipt is lost, the warranty will be based on the battery date code. The pro-rated price will be based on the customers original purchase price. If the receipt is lost the pro-rated price will be the average current retail price.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

... Charter companies murder batteries....

+1

Rolls has a pretty good tech note on sulfation, charging, equalization, and sulfation removal (which they think is feasible even though in my experience the results are less than stellar). Battery Sulfation : Technical Support Desk

The conditions they describe as worst case for sulfation are exactly the conditions you will find in charter boats, and the symptoms you describe for your batteries are exactly the symptoms they describe for diagnosis of significant sulfation. Will be interesting to see what you can report after you can charge on shore power at the equalization setting.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by onefastdaddy

Ok, at 2hrs that disconnected battery was at 12.8v it was 12.99 2hrs ago.

So, I'm going to try this on the other battery. I have re-connected that one (left one) and now have the right one disconnected. The voltage is 12.8 at the time I disconnected it. I had to disconnect both the + and - since the - was overlapping requiring it to be disconnected to allow the + to be disconnected.

I'll check the voltage in 2hrs on this right one.

I think I'd have been inclined to suggest you charge, then completely disconnect both batteries from the charger and from each other... if you could stand being completely without house power for the duration.

As I understand the original test suggestion (although perhaps I mis-read) it seems like you could get false readings... and might not quickly see if one battery has a shorted cell. But please disregard if I'm off the mark.

-Chris

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

+1

Rolls has a pretty good tech note on sulfation, charging, equalization, and sulfation removal (which they think is feasible even though in my experience the results are less than stellar). Battery Sulfation : Technical Support Desk

The conditions they describe as worst case for sulfation are exactly the conditions you will find in charter boats, and the symptoms you describe for your batteries are exactly the symptoms they describe for diagnosis of significant sulfation. Will be interesting to see what you can report after you can charge on shore power at the equalization setting.

As I understand it, that tech note is for unsealed batteries, not for AGMs. The OP is dealing with AGMs.

[hellosailor]

"Ok, at 2hrs that disconnected battery was at 12.8v it was 12.99 2hrs ago. "

I'll go out on a limb here and say absolutely NO "twelve" volt battery ever holds a real 12.99 or 12.8 volt charge.

Anytime you see a charge over 12.6-12.7 volts, it is either meter error (which may be 2% plus or minus 3 LSD, worse for some grossly uncalibrated cheapies and old meters that have drifted) or a FLOAT CHARGE which tells you nothing about true battery charge state and capacity.

Onefast, really, you want to spend a couple of hours reading up on this stuff, or just bring in some professional help.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Anytime you see a charge over 12.6-12.7 volts, it is either meter error (which may be 2% plus or minus 3 LSD, worse for some grossly uncalibrated cheapies and old meters that have drifted) or a FLOAT CHARGE which tells you nothing about true battery charge state and capacity.

12.9V is a common resting full charge voltage on AGM and Gell batteries.

Mark

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by colemj

12.9V is a common resting full charge voltage on AGM and Gell batteries.

Mark

Come to the cold Northeast and they will remain over 13V for weeks.....

[hellosailor]

I know Deka says "12.6" for FLA and "12.85" or '12.8' "and higher for the VRLA types, but for a real 100% charge? On a battery that has been in service for any length of time??

You sure you're not using the metric voltmeters again? (VBG)

[onefastdaddy]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

Please understand that a 1 year service life on a charter boat is often = to 6-7 years use on your own boat. Last time I was on Tortola I spoke with three charter companies (two lead techs who do this work at each location and one guy who is the owner of the charter company) specifically about charging habits, how long batteries last and what they use. The average amongst the three charter companies was 1-2 years on big cats and 1-3 years on mono's. Most are using 6V batteries these days but as always it is up to owners as to what gets installed..

We chartered a Lagoon 420 and the batteries were 11 months old and totally knackered/dead. Date codes and the service records confirmed when the batteries were installed. 675 Ah's of GC2 golf carts dead in under 1 year. When we left the dock the final words from our "check out guy" were; "Charge when the batteries get to 11.0V, you'll probably need 4 hours per day of charging." ...

Just because these AGM's are "new" or new-ish does not mean they have not been abused... Charter companies murder batteries....

I'm sure that's probably true but the boat was not used or chartered after the new batteries were installed.
Maybe you are unaware of the moorings ex charter purchase process?
The boat is moved to a turnaround dock where all at once all things decided upon (usually the survey findings) are done. It's done on days and the. The boat is handed off to the new owner to do a several day sea trial.

The boat had a big list of things that included batteries.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by onefastdaddy

That's good info, thanks for that, it is nice to hear. What's your typical use? We are a lagoon 410s2 with halogens in the kitchen (8 of them if all the switches are on), just a VHF, FM radio, and not much else to drain the batteries. Biggest user of electricity is the water pump and we avoid using that much these days in our current situation.

As you are not using DC refrigeration, you can probably get by with the wind generator if you cut your consumption. Those halogen lights are power hogs, and you may cut your daily DC usage in half if you use led replacement bulbs. The water pump should only draw power when it is running, and its daily draw is much less than the FM radio.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

As you are not using DC refrigeration, you can probably get by with the wind generator if you cut your consumption. Those halogen lights are power hogs, and you may cut your daily DC usage in half if you use led replacement bulbs. The water pump should only draw power when it is running, and its daily draw is much less than the FM radio.

I agree the Lagoons are pretty power hungry especially with the over head halogens. We chartered a 420 and the avergae consumption in the evening was 18-22A....

[Vladis]

Halogen lamps no! I had 21 10 watts lamps which, if all were ON, would get 210 watts out of the batteries. With LEDs you will reduce your bill by more than 1/5!