LiFeP04, your complete system cost

[olaf hart]

If I have to replace my AGM’s at the moment, I am going with spiral wound gel batteries, they seem to be the sweet spot as far as cost, longevity, charge acceptance and life cycles go.
Fortunately my batteries are holding up, but I like to keep an eye on the market just in case.
My boat has a lot of solar, the downside of lithium’s is their inability to last if kept at 100% SOC, we don’t live on the boat and I like to keep the batteries fully charged so that favours AGM or gel over lithium.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

If I have to replace my AGM’s at the moment, I am going with spiral wound gel batteries, they seem to be the sweet spot as far as cost, longevity, charge acceptance and life cycles go.
Fortunately my batteries are holding up, but I like to keep an eye on the market just in case.
My boat has a lot of solar, the downside of lithium’s is their inability to last if kept at 100% SOC, we don’t live on the boat and I like to keep the batteries fully charged so that favours AGM or gel over lithium.

set charge controller a bit lower. I keep mine set to 13.8

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Newhaul, sorry but I don't see source links to the components of your setup - cells, BMS - as discussed in the other thread here either?

If you don't want to reveal such details I completely understand, just say so.

ok I know I posted it somewhere here before but here goes .

Camel brand 25ah lifepo4 cells (16 4p4s configuration)
12 volt nominal 100ah.

Custom bms 60 amp in and out .

All I have are screenshots of the invoices and spec sheets
Batteries 16 cells at $8.00 each + $180.00shipping to my shop = $308.00
Works out to $3.08 per ah delivered.
Bms cost $12.80 each ( bought 2 shipping was $10 regardless )
bms $37.38 includes the 1.37 PayPal fee
And yes bought thru Alibaba paid via PayPal

[newhaul]

Here is the link to my refit thread post that has pictures of the battery bank.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2863380

[alctel]

Cells - 2800 CAD (8x200 sinopoly)
BMS - 900 CAD (orion JR)
Other stuff - (relays, bus bars etc) probably another 700CAD

Probably 4500 CAD in total for a 400 AH bank. (3300 USD)

edit: got a new charger for 450 CAD, 2000 watt inverter for 500 CAD and a new alt/ alt external regulator for another 400 CAD. Not sure if I should include them or not.

[rgleason]

John, I would not be quite so skeptical. The batteries have metal cases, if they were trying to cheapen them, they would not use those, so they might work out well.


Newhaul thank you for sharing this information and the photos on the other thread. I'll be very interested as this installation develops.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

If I have to replace my AGM’s at the moment, I am going with spiral wound gel batteries, they seem to be the sweet spot as far as cost, longevity, charge acceptance and life cycles go.
Fortunately my batteries are holding up, but I like to keep an eye on the market just in case.
My boat has a lot of solar, the downside of lithium’s is their inability to last if kept at 100% SOC, we don’t live on the boat and I like to keep the batteries fully charged so that favours AGM or gel over lithium.

And where you have this whisdom from, any own tests with lithium? LFP are fine with charging, you can configure your sources to lower cut-off voltages if you feel the need. But even if always fully charged, they will live longer than any gel or agm battery and perform better.

[olaf hart]

Here is an equivalent bank of tubular gels to my 400ah of AGMS

https://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/o...l-battery-bank

These prices are in $Aus, 70c in $US at the moment

You will note 3500 cycles at 50% dod, even 1500 cycles at 100% dod

That’s up in lithium territory, and no complicated charge or battery management issues or costs.

This stuff is in the “off the grid” home market in Oz, it is ripping along down here, no one is bothering with lithium.

[olaf hart]

On the issue of keeping lithium fully charged, Mainesail says storing at full charge has a negative impact on lithium, and he likes to keep his lithium’s half charged.

https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/

Seems to me lithium is a good thing if you have deep pockets, an electrical engineering degree and like to motor everywhere.

Not such a good deal if you sail and use a lot of solar.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Camel brand 25ah lifepo4 cells (16 4p4s configuration)

Please do not take what follows as too dismissive or denigrating, but to say this company's presence in credible customer discussions is "thin on the ground" is a gross overstatement.

Or even marketing material?

And that pricing in itself is to me a huge red flag,

$8 per large prismatic LFP cell (sold as new??!!)

but maybe you have found the bargain of the century and with some proper load cycling test gear you could make a fortune reselling.

It primarily deals in lead batteries, the first mention of lithium I found, (other than your posts and their About page) had to do with materials recycling

https://www.bestmag.co.uk/industry-n...ecycling-pilot

I completely agree that for the price you paid this is a great experiment.

I hope one day to have the gear and knowledge to be able to post analyses with this sort of level of detailed objective data

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91926

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Seems to me lithium is a good thing if you have deep pockets, an electrical engineering degree and like to motor everywhere

Rehashing this sort of discussion should really take place elsewhere, to preserve the value of this thread for discussion of specific LFP setups, costs and sources.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by rgleason

John, I would not be quite so skeptical.

That's fine, you do you.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Yup.. We paid about $3000 for a total system (including BMS, contactors, ect) down here in Grenada.

A 660Ah bank of FLA down here in Grenada was going to run me about $1700 once all the costs were factored. Hell I don't even care about the extra life. I was happy to pay extra for the other benefits.

I am interested in lithium as well. My boat is in Grenada right now . Who did you use for your job

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Here is an equivalent bank of tubular gels to my 400ah of AGMS

https://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/o...l-battery-bank

These prices are in $Aus, 70c in $US at the moment

You will note 3500 cycles at 50% dod, even 1500 cycles at 100% dod

That’s up in lithium territory, and no complicated charge or battery management issues or costs.

This stuff is in the “off the grid” home market in Oz, it is ripping along down here, no one is bothering with lithium.

What about voltage sag when under load?

They coast about the same as lithium too, and don't have the weight benefits.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Please do not take what follows as too dismissive or denigrating, but to say this company's presence in credible customer discussions is "thin on the ground" is a gross overstatement.

Or even marketing material?

And that pricing in itself is to me a huge red flag,

$8 per large prismatic LFP cell (sold as new??!!)

but maybe you have found the bargain of the century and with some proper load cycling test gear you could make a fortune reselling.

It primarily deals in lead batteries, the first mention of lithium I found, (other than your posts and their About page) had to do with materials recycling

https://www.bestmag.co.uk/industry-n...ecycling-pilot

I completely agree that for the price you paid this is a great experiment.

I hope one day to have the gear and knowledge to be able to post analyses with this sort of level of detailed objective data

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91926

john they are first off not big prismatic cells they are only 25ah cells so small ( takes 16 of them to make up a 100ah 12 volt pack.)

secondly the camel battery company is the prime producer for the domestic Chinese ev market they don't sell much outside due to need in country.
As long as I keep the total product cost below $1000 per shipment there are no tariffs to jack the price up . ( more than doubled the consumer price)

I hope some day soon you do pull the trigger on a setup of your own to test .