LiFeP04, your complete system cost

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Here is an equivalent bank of tubular gels to my 400ah of AGMS

https://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/o...l-battery-bank

These prices are in $Aus, 70c in $US at the moment

You will note 3500 cycles at 50% dod, even 1500 cycles at 100% dod

That’s up in lithium territory, and no complicated charge or battery management issues or costs.

This stuff is in the “off the grid” home market in Oz, it is ripping along down here, no one is bothering with lithium.

this has been discussed many times on this thread
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...nks-65069.html
And with our common usage 10k cycles are not out of the realm of probability .

[eMarineSystems]

Hi sailors. We would like to add some opinion to the several already made. We do not recommend anybody that is not very tech savvy to even consider putting together their own lithium ion bank. The bank stores of bunch of energy and when released due to unfavorable conditions you can have a disaster on board affecting the safety of all those who are with you. For large house bank's (200A-Hr>)on board a boat, we recommend the Victron or the Lithionics system because they both use an integrated BMS and utilize separate charging and discharging cnt methods. Without proper and reliable monitoring of the individual cells for temperature and charge catastrophe can occur and we would not want to see anybody put in harm's way to save a few dollars. Please take the time to understand the LiIon products as this is one of the most critical and most dangerous systems on board your boat. Safety is more important than $$$ on this subject matter.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by eMarineSystems

Hi sailors. We would like to add some opinion to the several already made. We do not recommend anybody that is not very tech savvy to even consider putting together their own lithium ion bank. The bank stores of bunch of energy and when released due to unfavorable conditions you can have a disaster on board affecting the safety of all those who are with you. For large house bank's (200A-Hr>)on board a boat, we recommend the Victron or the Lithionics system because they both use an integrated BMS and utilize separate charging and discharging cnt methods. Without proper and reliable monitoring of the individual cells for temperature and charge catastrophe can occur and we would not want to see anybody put in harm's way to save a few dollars. Please take the time to understand the LiIon products as this is one of the most critical and most dangerous systems on board your boat. Safety is more important than $$$ on this subject matter.

yes, and the same applies to all energy storages above 200 Ah including lead acid batteries, regardless of chemistry. Always use a marine service to install and maintain your boat, even changing a v-belt on your engine or a power plug on your shore line can lead to serious injuries or death. Even polishing and shining your deck can be dangerous, it can be slippery when wet.

[travelnodes]

Hello,

I'm new to this thread and I have an opportunity and an offer some of you may be interested in... I have a friend who purchased a pallet of used LifePo batteries. He foolishly cut off and threw away all of the BMS boards.

But the cells are still useable (i.e. they are holding a charge per my multimeter) I can buy them cheap and in large quantities. But I would offer some in trade to a skilled Electrical DIY person in exchange for a safe, tested and working array for use as house batteries.

In other words, I send you (or deliver to you) a large supply of LifePo cells clusters and you solder on all the BMS boards, etc. and keep some for yourself and give the rest back to me, ready to use.

If anyone is interested please direct message me or post questions here.

Joe

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by geoffa

My 16kwhr system not including my labour was about $3k for 160 pouches lifepo4, .

More information on this please.

[geoffa]

Big topic lot of detail not sure how I can narrow down, suffice to say a full system answer would be required to put into sensible context. Given changes in market might come up with a different answer today my system if four years old.

[geoffa]

Simi60 I posted a detail system overview on the 21-08-2018 @ 9.41. Not sure how to direct you there. This might help your understanding.

[Simi 60]

From your comment it implied you had 16 kWh of lp4 batteries you made from160 pouches for $3k.

That's pretty close to the size of our 24v agm bank that cost about the same.

I would interested as to how you made a battery bank that large for what seems a very low price.

[geoffa]

The 160 pouches is no magical #, everything has to be a multiple of 16 for a notional rail voltage of 48v. Then to get the price I wanted I had to exceed an order quantity of 150, hence 160.
I ordered them direct from the manufacturer and had them airfreighted direct.
Putting them together mechanically was not a trivial matter. With the benefit of hindsight I designed for a current load in excess of what was needed and I have never got near 50% depth of discharge.
Hope this helps.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by geoffa

Putting them together mechanically was not a trivial matter.

A detailed HowTo with photos and links to sources, would be a great contribution.

[geoffa]

I have tried posting some pics but always seem to lose them.

[geoffa]

Here goes, I won't labour the safety demands, the pouches are mechanically and electrically vulnerable. Be warned. There are 16 stacks in series with each stack 10 in parallel. Split between 3 blocks of 6x6x4.
Made a jig to safely and accurately hold each pouch so I could drill the two flaps that are the + -. These holes need to be accurate so each 10 in parallel can be bolted together as a common bond. I used some 3mmx20mm copper flat left over from another job, these were bent double to physically and electrically allow the bolts to pull the 10 pouches flaps together, note the pouches are not pulled together. This is achieved by placing synthetic spacer between each of the copper joins. The spacer is cut from some leftovers synthetic decking. This approach ensures electrical continuity is achieved thru the copper not the securing bolts.
I used conductive paste on all joins. Each stack was stagger joined in series to ensure no individual pouch carries an unbalanced load. The stacks were then mechanically and electrically joined and connected into the three 'battery boxes.
Please note this would not be suitable for a traction application and system design is for max 60amp. Potentially eeach stack could deliver 900amps within spec.
Obviously the whole system set up is a different story.

[john61ct]

Thanks.

For the parallel stacks, I'm not clear on the conductivity through the spacer. Is each tab "clamped" by nuts on a threaded copper rod?

The spacers aren't conductive right?

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by john61ct

A detailed HowTo with photos and links to sources, would be a great contribution.

This is a big ask.
I would feel embarrassed to ask someone to-
Buy all the equipment,
Spend the time to figure out how to get it all going,
Document everything, then
Share all he has worked out.

I know its human nature but perhaps instead of asking for something for nothing, perhaps we can offer something, time etc in return to help and share the load. Many hands etc.

Some extremely generous people that do this, which even though they may also be hoping for some extra business, monetized or sales etc (good on them as they are still providing solutions ) is still a big contribution.

It always seems these generous people get- criticized in some way shape or for it, especially online. Mostly from those that have not put their money and time where their mouth is.

There are a small group of 'Doers' and a large group of 'Knockers'.

But I applaud anyone that has a go, even as it always is, not to everyones approval.

[geoffa]

John,
The spacers are not conductive they are part of the physical structure, hold everything together and in the process not put any bending load on the very vulnerable tabs that have to be electrically isolated from the pouch outer covers.
Whilst the bolts are conductive they are bog standard galv bolts. The electrical connectivity is provided by the copper u pieces that are tensioned against the spacer the spacer is carefully calculated in thickness so a single nut can pull the stack of tabs down without loading the pouch outer casing. There is an air gap between 3mm each pouch.
I know a pic is worth a thousand words shall try and find one.
Geoff
FIEAust, CPEng, NER, MCEE