Lightening...again

[daletournier]

When I cruised Asia many boats when left in a marina would run some chain from one of there stays into the water, I never did this as my boat at the time had no stays being a freestanding rig.

I'm now in Panama, lightening capital of the world and now have wire holding the mast up.

Here in the marina I've noticed not one boat does the above? I'm wondering why, is it just a herd thing?

What thoughts are out there regarding this?

Yes I understand it's probably been discussed before, but so has everything. Also using the Cf app dosent really allow you to search the forum that well.

[slug]

Lightning is a mystery

Best to follow standard procedure ...mast and rigging to earth

All large metallic objects ..tanks, engine
grounded to earth

[AndyEss]

How much effort is it to run the chain down from a shroud to the water? Heck, I’d put a chunk of zinc or aluminum on the chain and save my hull/prop anodes some.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

How much effort is it to run the chain down from a shroud to the water? Heck, I’d put a chunk of zinc or aluminum on the chain and save my hull/prop anodes some.

Almost no effort.

I've read much over the years on lightning, and I, like the poster above said, it's a "mystery ".

My boat has Marelon throughhulls so not bonded like many suggest.

Theres things I see that make me not sure what we know is correct, I've seen boats correctly bonded with ground plate etc get hit and I've seen non grounding boats get hit.

I figure in my situation a chain attached to my bow roller which is attached to my forestay theoretically gives a path of least resistance if I got hit, of course some will argue that path of least resistance attracts lightning while others would say it's a form of bonding doing away with the potential difference between mast and the water making the boat invisible to lightening? ( dont know if I worded that correctly).

Anyway, interested in thoughts.

[Paul L]

Is your mast bonded to the keel or a lightning strip?
You aren't going to attract lightning by bonding or grounding. The grounding system is there to reduce the damage when hit, not to protect from a strike. You might increase your zinc consumption which can be a problem when you are absent..
If you are leaving the boat and going to add some water connections, you might as well add multiple ones.

[Montanan]

Okay, perhaps there is a bit of an English language barrier with the international nature of this forum but the correct word for this thread subject is Lightning, not Lightening.

If one wishes to easily lighten their boat, start by ditching the very high resistance chains dragging over the side which are in fact very poor lightning protection grounding conductors due to the poor contacts between the many links and the nature of iron metallurgy and the highly oxidized surfaces.


This reminds me of when someone get the words silicon and silicone mixed up; one has subject relevance to chips and the other to tits. When living in the San Francisco Bay Area I would often cringe when some would talk about Silicone Valley, or when referring to The City by the Bay as Frisco.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Okay, perhaps there is a bit of an English language barrier with the international nature of this forum but the correct word for this thread subject is Lightning, not Lightening.

If one wishes to easily lighten their boat, start by ditching the very high resistance chains dragging over the side which are in fact very poor lightning protection grounding conductors due to the poor contacts between the many links and the nature of iron metallurgy and the highly oxidized surfaces.


This reminds me of when someone get the words silicon and silicone mixed up; one has subject relevance to chips and the other to tits. When living in the San Francisco Bay Area I would often cringe when some would talk about Silicone Valley, or when referring to The City by the Bay as Frisco.

Yep, grammers not my strong suit, I put it down to my wayward youth, but keep correcting I may get better, who knows?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Is your mast bonded to the keel or a lightning strip?
You aren't going to attract lightning by bonding or grounding. The grounding system is there to reduce the damage when hit, not to protect from a strike. You might increase your zinc consumption which can be a problem when you are absent..
If you are leaving the boat and going to add some water connections, you might as well add multiple ones.

Hi Paul , no bonding that I'm aware of.

Yes I'm aware or at least read bonding wont attract lightning, more repeating others concerns, it seems controversial at times.

I've been lucky, not much lightning at all over the last 3 mths, but a cat got a direct hit here at Shelter Bay just before I arrived.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Hi Paul , no bonding that I'm aware of.

Yes I'm aware or at least read bonding wont attract lightning, more repeating others concerns, it seems controversial at times.

I've been lucky, not much lightning at all over the last 3 mths, but a cat got a direct hit here at Shelter Bay just before I arrived.

You're at the lower lightning season now, so hopefully you'll sneak by. With a little bit of luck you'll have sacrificial cats moored near you.

[tkeithlu]

Grounding has no effect on whether or not you get hit. At that point it's a static electrical charge. Once you've been hit, it's a voltage and a current beyond the imagination of us mortals, but a huge conductor to ground may help. That voltage/current will take the easiest routes (plural) to ground, which may be through all your electronics, through your mast step, or through available carbon-based life forms with saline (conductive) circulatory systems. You only approach protection when you get inside a Faraday cage, such as an automobile or enclosed steel boat.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Paul L

You're at the lower lightning season now, so hopefully you'll sneak by. With a little bit of luck you'll have sacrificial cats moored near you.

That's my cunning plan on both counts.

[Checkswrecks]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Is your mast bonded to the keel or a lightning strip?
You aren't going to attract lightning by bonding or grounding. The grounding system is there to reduce the damage when hit, not to protect from a strike.

This. And chain is a terrible conductive path.

We have lightning frequently hit aircraft all the time and the key is to provide it a path of low resistance Obviously, fiberglass boats don't have a nice conductive aluminum structure.

But an aluminum mast is a LOT more conductive than SS rigging AND the bigger cross sectional area can carry a heavier load than trying to force the amperage through the resistance at each end of a steel cable. I've seen steel control cables blown apart by lightning strikes and those were INSIDE of the protective faraday cage of the airplane.

Rather than chain, consider connecting a regular automotive jumper cable to the vang connection at the base of the mast and just dropping the other end in the water. If too far, simply split the jumper set into a separate black piece and red piece to double the length.

And consider adding cheap protection for your expensive radio(s).
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-188159.html

[daletournier]

I cruised with a ex electrical engineer that worked for many years at NASA.

I once asked him about lightning and lightning protection, he laughed and said" humans make the mistake thinking that lightning acts rationally and will follow a set of rules that we humans apply to it".

[AndyEss]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I cruised with a ex electrical engineer that worked for many years at NASA.

I once asked him about lightning and lightning protection, he laughed and said" humans make the mistake thinking that lightning acts rationally and will follow a set of rules that we humans apply to it".

Nature usually acts in probabilistic rather than determinant ways. Once struck, it would seem that providing an easy, cheap path for all that electrical energy to get back to earth potential would be the best (if not perfect) solution.
Good thoughts on the mast cross-section being the best conductor, and some battery cables to well connect the mast to earth ground (water).
I think I would still put some anode material onto the water end of the cable to augment other anodic protection.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

Nature usually acts in probabilistic rather than determinant ways. Once struck, it would seem that providing an easy, cheap path for all that electrical energy to get back to earth potential would be the best (if not perfect) solution.
Good thoughts on the mast cross-section being the best conductor, and some battery cables to well connect the mast to earth ground (water).
I think I would still put some anode material onto the water end of the cable to augment other anodic protection.

I'd agree, good simple suggestion.

My brain seems to delete information quicker than it absorbs these days, I now remember seeing the jumper lead idea in the past.

I'm far from qualified to question the experts but I do wonder how any cable we could possibly add could provide a adequate path for the tremendous amount of current and voltage a lightening strike would contain, to me it would be like trying to push a swimming pool amount of water through a garden hose in microseconds. 10,000-200, 000 amperes .