Lithium ion house battery bank disappointment

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Our generator can pump out up to 80 amps, but only while SOC is under 80%, after that the amps drop quite quickly to about 15 by the time the SOC gets to high 80s. But we don’t want to run either engines nor generator any more than absolutely necessary, generally once every three or four days or so. The solar is enough to put about half our daily usage back.

Ok wait.. Let me get this straight.. You have 700W of solar and its only able to put back half of your daily usage?

If that is correct, then we are having the wrong conversation. We first need to talk about doing an energy audit and figuring out how much power you are actually using. Second we need to figure out if your panels are actually putting out what they are supposed to. I'm thinking you have other problems somewhere.

My rough, back of the napkin calculation using your area says that your array should support about 225AH/day. Its possible you are using double that, but doubtfull unless you are quite wastefull. (Our boat, with fridge, freezer, and a family of five uses about 190AH/Day).

[john61ct]

It never ends.

I am an RC fan myself, but plenty others, including many here, feel more secure just following the mfg specs.

He also discourages all bare cell + DIY efforts

[CatNewBee]

Look at pbase.com (Mainsail) for an in depth discussion on lithiums from someone who is a knowledgeable profession marine electrician. End od discussion.

... maybe for you, not for me... :-)

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

... maybe for you, not for me... :-)

Yes.. I agree.. His website is a great resource but not the "end of the discussion". There are plenty of people with different views that have sucessful multi-year installs.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by hikersailor

Look at pbase.com (Mainsail) for an in depth discussion on lithiums from someone who is a knowledgeable profession marine electrician. End od discussion.

Old link. Here's the new one:

https://marinehowto.com/

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by travellerw

I think there is definate value offered by the premium brands. They have done the research, built the system and failsafes and offer a gaurantee. We know at least 2 boats with a complete system from Victron and its a VERY nice system. Not completely plug and play, but still very good.

Adds considerably to the price
Just one component, their branded Victron battery vs the battery we bought from a major victron agent in Australia was a $650 price difference x 8.

Happy enough to buy their battery monitor and inverter charger but not the batteries, panels or mppt.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Adds considerably to the price
Just one component, their branded Victron battery vs the battery we bought from a major victron agent in Australia was a $650 price difference x 8.

Happy enough to buy their battery monitor and inverter charger but not the batteries, panels or mppt.

Oh you will get no argument from me. The big guys are expensive and thats the exact reason we choose a DIY system.

However, every boat has thier own budget and if it fits your budget, then there is no denying the profressional drop-ins (Victron, Lithionics, Relion, ect) make it easier. We know boats that had the budget, bought into a system, and were up and running faster than me. Sure, they paid more, but that didn't matter to them (it certanly matters to me).

However.. I'm confused as to why you would not use a Victron MPPT controller? Frankly I think Victron controllers have one of the highest value offerings on the market. They work just fine in a DIY setup and are very "Homebrew" friendly. The ve.Direct protocol is easily manipulated and a simple Arduino can add a ton of functions and control.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by travellerw

If it fits your budget, then there is no denying the profressional drop-ins (Victron, Lithionics, Relion, ect) make it easier. We know boats that had the budget, bought into a system, and were up and running faster than me.

Still have to lug in an connect batteries whether victron or another brand so I see no time saving or easy install difference

However.. I'm confused as to why you would not use a Victron MPPT controller?

We run 250w x 9

The research I was doing for systems that size had multiple small mppt that added to cost or a large single that could do the job at a lesser outlay.
The standout for a system that size seemed to be the midnite classic 150 which I imported from the US for a 50% saving.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Still have to lug in an connect batteries whether victron or another brand so I see no time saving or easy install difference


We run 250w x 9

The research I was doing for systems that size had multiple small mppt that added to cost or a large single that could do the job at a lesser outlay.
The standout for a system that size seemed to be the midnite classic 150 which I imported from the US for a 50% saving.

People with that kind of budget don't lug batteries. They almost always pay someone to do the entire "kit and kabootle". They want nice pretty screens that show all the data. They don't want to think, they don't want to design a BMS, they don't want to code. They just want to walk aboard and have nice new high tech batteries.

As to the controllers.. Different strokes for different folks.. I prefer multiple controllers, even at the higher expense. It adds redundancy and helps reduce shading issues. The %50 increase in cost is worth it for me, for the redundancy alone, but thats just me and I only have 4 panel banks..

My quick math says you must have a 24V system. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Classic 150 cannot support that size of array at 12V.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by travellerw

My quick math says you must have a 24V system. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Classic 150 cannot support that size of array at 12V.

12v panels
12v batteries wired as 24v
Victron 5000va/120 inverter charger
Running mostly 240v household appliances but with 24v windlass, toilets and pumps and 12v lights and instruments.