MARINE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES

[shepaug]

I have a hobby of amateur radio/ham radio and simply enjoy 2 way radios, etc.

In 2019 electrical noise is something that is making all communications difficult or impossible. (it normally is not apparent at VHF/UHF frequencies, etc.) HF..Shortwave frequencies...

Many get away from NOISE by operating portable somewhere. Maybe even on a boat if you don't have something generating NOISE.

Take a portable radio and listen where you live. NOISE ?

I was advised to invest in some deep cycle marine batteries !!!

I ended up buying 4 of the things from a Home Depot. They weigh about 75 pounds.

hmmm I told myself these things are heavy !! Watch your back. I was careful and lifted using my legs and later a 2 wheel hand truck.

About 2 days later my right upper back started hurting. Then it kept getting worse. Terrible. By MRI I seem to have some torn muscle back there.

This seems ridiculous but maybe I just got too old.

My big question is if people handle these batteries 24/7/365 there must be some type of crane tool/gadget to lift and lower ? Then physics might say if your lifting 75-125 lbs, etc. the tool would have to weigh more than the batteries.

Lithium might be the solution but playing with such can get expensive.

Frustrated. Hope I just have some muscle tear but for anybody back injuries can literally ruin ones lives !!!!

Any suggestions ?

[AA3JY]

I’m not sure where you are located..but just came away with and got rid of just recently (6) Life Line (still under warranty) AGM 8D batteries that would have kept your ‘shack’ running for a month...

https://lifelinebatteries.com/produc...eries/gpl-8dl/

[Pete7]

Well, I don't buy batteries like that, max is a Gp31 size so about 28kgs and that is hard enough lugging aboard then down into the boat and batteries compartment. The last set were downsized to Gp24, TMX24 @ 21kgs, much easier to man handle.

The Trojan 6 volt T105s are also very popular and 28kgs.

When you mention Home Depot and deep cycle the forum antenna's will start twitching with concern. What make and model are they?

Pete

[GordMay]

I use one of these:
Or these:

[shepaug]

I'm in Connecticut USA now. I bought 3 from the Home Depot in Fairfield,Ct. and one from Stratford,Ct. store. Kind of convenient and no shipping costs

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nautilus...1MDC/205309650

I don't even see the weight listed but I think somewhere it said 75 pounds.

There was a franchise store close (West Marine?) and I in brief looked at their batteries and it seemed the about the same thing cost 2x as much.

Hey..I have seen them stocked in Wal-Mart...


Now playing with these things not heavy ? Might stress anybody.


Most radio stuff I think desires 12 volts.

Gotta keep them charged !!! I still have one sitting in a car and not going to lift at this time.

I have been told Lithium can be of much less weight but total confusion there. $1000.00 for something that costs $100 'marine deep cycle' ? Buying $1000 things that don't serve the purpose and buy and try etc. and you might as well buy a new car. (money)

Need info on 12v that could run a 100 watt radio for example for a few hours. It can get technical.

The trouble with this stuff with no experience is what to get and cost, etc. Nobody wants to spend a fortune.


ps..on above a mention ---------------


VOLTS
12

LENGTH IN (MM)
20.76 (527.4)

WIDTH IN (MM)
10.89 (276.6)

HEIGHT IN (MM)
8.64 (219.5)

WEIGHT LB (KG)
156 (70.8)

Not a little heavy ?

[a64pilot]

Next time go to Sams club or Costco and buy 6V golf cart batteries and wire them in series to get 12V, that basically lets you spit the batteries in two if you will and carry one half at a time.
Plus they are real true deep cycle batteries, it’s what most of us do in boats.

[john61ct]

Yes you bought the wrong batteries, both too heavy, and will likely only last a third as long as true deep cycle.

With lead heavier per Ah the better, as an indicator of quality / longevity.

If you want / need light weight, then expensive LFP is the way to go.

Or forget longevity, just make multiple trips with smaller units, to be parallel-connected at your destination for the capacity you need,

and then just replace every 2-3 years, depends how often you cycle of course.

Key starting data point:

assuming 12V nominal power, how many Ah do your longest sessions consume?

A coulomb-counting wattmeter will tell you, usually under $50.

[john61ct]

Those 6V GCs are best value, but weigh well over 60lbs each.

[sailah]

I think lithium batteries would be a waste in your application. That is, assuming you don't need to move them around constantly. If you are looking to isolate your rig from 120V AC then you could just keep the batteries charged and disconnect the charger when you are using radio. I'll admit I don't know a lot about radio transmission or why you would need to do this. Maybe there is a filter designed for this instead of using batteries unless you wanted the portability. Lead Acid batteries are not what I consider portable.

I use a strap on my golf cart batteries (Duracell GC2, Batteries Plus) to lift them but I do that rarely as they are heavy and filled with acid. I'd also take caution using the batteries and charging them near sensitive and expensive electronics as they are filled with acid and you don't want that to corrode electronics.

If I wanted a mobile rig, I would perhaps add another battery to my truck with an isolator to keep it charged with vehicle alternator.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by shepaug

I have a hobby of amateur radio/ham radio and simply enjoy 2 way radios, etc.

In 2019 electrical noise is something that is making all communications difficult or impossible. (it normally is not apparent at VHF/UHF frequencies, etc.) HF..Shortwave frequencies...

Many get away from NOISE by operating portable somewhere. Maybe even on a boat if you don't have something generating NOISE.

Take a portable radio and listen where you live. NOISE ?

I was advised to invest in some deep cycle marine batteries !!!

I ended up buying 4 of the things from a Home Depot. They weigh about 75 pounds.

hmmm I told myself these things are heavy !! Watch your back. I was careful and lifted using my legs and later a 2 wheel hand truck.

About 2 days later my right upper back started hurting. Then it kept getting worse. Terrible. By MRI I seem to have some torn muscle back there.

This seems ridiculous but maybe I just got too old.

My big question is if people handle these batteries 24/7/365 there must be some type of crane tool/gadget to lift and lower ? Then physics might say if your lifting 75-125 lbs, etc. the tool would have to weigh more than the batteries.

Lithium might be the solution but playing with such can get expensive.

Frustrated. Hope I just have some muscle tear but for anybody back injuries can literally ruin ones lives !!!!

Any suggestions ?

Let’s back up here - are you operating or planning to operate your ham transceiver from your boat or home?

Ambient noise can often be eliminated or reduced sufficiently to minimize the noise floor on HF. What if anything have you done to identify noise source(s)?

What is your electrical energy budget for the radio, mode of operation and power output?

Absent this and other information, we have no clarity on what you intend

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by sailah

I think lithium batteries would be a waste in your application. That is, assuming you don't need to move them around constantly

I inferred that the use case was a truly portable rig,

not fixed inside a living space but to be operated outdoors,

carried by the OP personally over a fair distance.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I inferred that the use case was a truly portable rig,

not fixed inside a living space but to be operated outdoors,

carried by the OP personally over a fair distance.

True they could, but, he did say "no one wants to spend a fortune" and the electrical demands are "100w for a couple of hours" so hardly a huge demand.

Therefore, whilst we know you like LFP, in this instance I agree with Sailah, they would be wasted for this requirement, never mind the risk of user error destroying them completely by incorrect charging.

As a side note and not for the OP, I have been shopping for a new Suzuki SV650 battery. Guess what they now come in a LFP format. So how is that going to work without a BMS to stop over charging whilst riding down the road Mainesail is right, these are not yet suitable for everyone as a drop in replacement for lead batteries despite the re-sellers wanting to profit by encouraging there use. I prefer to contribute to my own pension fund, not some retailer.

Pete

[john61ct]

Sure if under 50A per session, then a few motorcycle-sized AGM totalling 100Ah @12V would be fine, probably 60-70lbs total, so 2-3 trips should be enough.

Unfortunately I don't know of true deep cycling lead batteries in such small sizes.

In LFP 20lbs worth would be sufficient, and a DIY pack could cost well under $200. The OP seems intelligent enough to learn how to build it and care for them properly.

[Frankly]

Both a sailor and a ham. Probably the one thing this crowd (donkycrats, preublicans, and dependents) would agree is that Sams Club 6 volt golf cart batteries provide the best deep cycle experience for the buck/ peso/ €.

As to lifting, get a strap as suggested and then use your head not your back. I change out 6 on my yacht and exert more drinking my morning coffee. We use the main halyard to drop them through the fwd hatch, slide along floor on rug, and a small block and tackle into the battery box. The two powering my house rig are lifted onto a 6ft high shelf using the same block and tackle.

Messed up my back when I turned 70, but quickly got religion after I got over that. You will be amazed at what you can work out if you just "stop and think".

Amen on the increased background noise.


Frankly

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Pete7

True they could, but, he did say "no one wants to spend a fortune" and the electrical demands are "100w for a couple of hours" so hardly a huge demand.

Therefore, whilst we know you like LFP, in this instance I agree with Sailah, they would be wasted for this requirement, never mind the risk of user error destroying them completely by incorrect charging.

As a side note and not for the OP, I have been shopping for a new Suzuki SV650 battery. Guess what they now come in a LFP format. So how is that going to work without a BMS to stop over charging whilst riding down the road Mainesail is right, these are not yet suitable for everyone as a drop in replacement for lead batteries despite the re-sellers wanting to profit by encouraging there use. I prefer to contribute to my own pension fund, not some retailer.

Pete

The bike batteries are I’m almost certain A123 cells, they don’t have any kind of BMS, or I don’t think they do anyway. Higher capacity batteries just have more cells, 8 was I believe the biggest or used to be, I had a four cell in the Husky and I’m sure it would be fine in your Suzuki.
I believe they get away with that by being wired so that 14V isn’t pushing the pack very hard, it stays in the middle of the charge voltage range, or that’s my guess anyway.
I ran them for years in my Husqvarna TE-450 and my Honda CBR-100XX. After running them for years I’d never go back to a lead acid motorcycle battery, especially a high performance bike like the Husky that had a titanium exhaust system to save weight etc.
They just worked, I never had to charge them or anything, let the bike sit over winter and it would start no problem next spring.

The Ham guys I know that set up temporary emergency stations prepping for disaster, all run Honda’s they say the Honda is cleaner power and less noisy than line power.