Marine light bulbs nomenclature

[Seas The Moment]

I ordered some LED lights 12V BAY15D to replace my nav lights. But when they came they were dual function bulbs.


How do I search for a bulb that is not dual function (like high beam/low beam) that does not use the base as the negative power source. In other word dual contacts one + and one -. What is the nomenclature BAY15D ??

[Nekton73]

BA bases explained
https://www.bulbamerica.com/pages/wh...ay15d-base1157


A marine source
https://marineledshop.com/marine-ba1...igation-bulbs/


An automotive option
https://www.amazon.ca/Safego-BAY15D-.../dp/B073S5ZJ4R

[wholybee]

You *REALLY* should order LED bulbs that are designed for navigation lights, which would mean the expensive ones from the major suppliers. (Dr. LED, Aqua Signal, Marinebeam)

There are 2 important issues. One is that cheap bulbs have cheap electronics which will interfere with VHF radios. In particular, even if you can't hear any interference, AIS reception might be wiped out or greatly reduced.

Second, the wavelength of light matters. LEDs are not full spectrum white. So, with a red or green lens, if the red or green component is not the correct wavelength of the filter the color will shift, or not be as bright.

[Seas The Moment]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

BA bases explained
https://www.bulbamerica.com/pages/wh...ay15d-base1157


A marine source
https://marineledshop.com/marine-ba1...igation-bulbs/


An automotive option
https://www.amazon.ca/Safego-BAY15D-.../dp/B073S5ZJ4R

Thanks, I do understand BA15S BAY15S BAY15D difference. The BAY15D can be Single Circuit SC or double circuit DC. The automotive 1157 (and others) are DC's with the base as ground. My base is not in the circuit. I need a BAY15D SC but using SC is not the defacto nomenclature so not really a convenient way to search. If I know another non led number, I might be able to search for replacement of 12345.
Thanks

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Seas The Moment

I ordered some LED lights 12V BAY15D to replace my nav lights. But when they came they were dual function bulbs.


How do I search for a bulb that is not dual function (like high beam/low beam) that does not use the base as the negative power source. In other word dual contacts one + and one -. What is the nomenclature BAY15D ??

I believe that you need to order a ba15d with parallel pins. I would also specify the electrical connection requirement.

[Seas The Moment]

Originally Posted by wholybee

You *REALLY* should order LED bulbs that are designed for navigation lights, which would mean the expensive ones from the major suppliers. (Dr. LED, Aqua Signal, Marinebeam)

There are 2 important issues. One is that cheap bulbs have cheap electronics which will interfere with VHF radios. In particular, even if you can't hear any interference, AIS reception might be wiped out or greatly reduced.

Second, the wavelength of light matters. LEDs are not full spectrum white. So, with a red or green lens, if the red or green component is not the correct wavelength of the filter the color will shift, or not be as bright.

Yeah, you are convincing me. I read the USCG recommendations 5 years ago and ignored them. Haven't had any problems with IRF and I couldn't tell you spectrum because I never approach my boat with Navs on. But you gave me three name, I only have been search two of them.
Thanks

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by wholybee

You *REALLY* should order LED bulbs that are designed for navigation lights, which would mean the expensive ones from the major suppliers. (Dr. LED, Aqua Signal, Marinebeam)

There are 2 important issues. One is that cheap bulbs have cheap electronics which will interfere with VHF radios. In particular, even if you can't hear any interference, AIS reception might be wiped out or greatly reduced.

Second, the wavelength of light matters. LEDs are not full spectrum white. So, with a red or green lens, if the red or green component is not the correct wavelength of the filter the color will shift, or not be as bright.

There are a couple more:

Third, certified navigation fixtures assume a very specific location for the filament (at the focal point of the Fresnel lens.) An LED replacement is festooned with small light sources all around and up and down it. This may not show the proper characteristics of the nav light. Nobody cares until there's an accident. You can bet the lawyers will be all over it then.

Finally, the fixture itself is in a harsh environment, and the socket for the replaceable bulb is subject to corrosion. I've had to fix nav lights far more often for corroded contacts than for a blown bulb.

Buying a certified LED fixture assures you have the right light characteristics and means never having to deal with a corroded socket. It seems such a waste to put a good, modern LED bulb in an old fixture when you can replace the whole fixture and never have to worry about it again.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

There are a couple more:

Third, certified navigation fixtures assume a very specific location for the filament (at the focal point of the Fresnel lens.) An LED replacement is festooned with small light sources all around and up and down it. This may not show the proper characteristics of the nav light. Nobody cares until there's an accident. You can bet the lawyers will be all over it then.

Finally, the fixture itself is in a harsh environment, and the socket for the replaceable bulb is subject to corrosion. I've had to fix nav lights far more often for corroded contacts than for a blown bulb.

Buying a certified LED fixture assures you have the right light characteristics and means never having to deal with a corroded socket. It seems such a waste to put a good, modern LED bulb in an old fixture when you can replace the whole fixture and never have to worry about it again.

I question if the lawyers will be all over it. In fact, I don't believe there is any requirement for a recreational boat to use certified lights at all, only that they meet the visibility requirements. Certainly not authoritative, but from marinebeam, read the description:

https://store.marinebeam.com/double-...mount-cluster/

I agree with how much better an LED fixture is over a retrofit bulb. If buying a new fixture for a mast on the ground, no doubt that is what you buy. But changing a fixture at the top of a mast is both expensive and a royal PITA. Changing a bulb is cheap and easy, so when the incandescent bulb burns out, a retrofit bulb makes a lot of sense. My LED bulbs (Dr. LED brand, both the tri-color on the mast and red/green bow lights that are subject to spray) lasted 5 years and 30,000 ocean miles. At that point I replaced them as a matter of preventative maintenance, they still worked fine. The contacts were cleaned and polished, and then coated with dielectric grease. That is why they lasted.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by wholybee

You *REALLY* should order LED bulbs that are designed for navigation lights, which would mean the expensive ones from the major suppliers. (Dr. LED, Aqua Signal, Marinebeam)



There are 2 important issues. One is that cheap bulbs have cheap electronics which will interfere with VHF radios. In particular, even if you can't hear any interference, AIS reception might be wiped out or greatly reduced.



Second, the wavelength of light matters. LEDs are not full spectrum white. So, with a red or green lens, if the red or green component is not the correct wavelength of the filter the color will shift, or not be as bright.

The interference issue has largely gone away as these days switching frequency has gone way into the megahertz range and these signals have little energy to propagate . Also linear constant current is also common. I’ve used cheap Chinese leds with zero problems. I always buy plenty of spares on AliExpress and in fact rarely need them. Yes the nomenclature can be confusing so take advantage of the cheaper price and order loads. !! I even mod some of the bulb holders to boot.

I just did a new combined mast top anchor and tri colour , with all Chinese leds. No interference on ais or vhf and in fact the scope couldn’t detect anything

Brightness wise most leds are greater then equivalent multi chromatic incandescent anyway. The range requirements for small boats are easily exceeded by modern COB LeDS. It’s not “ Kansas “ anymore Dorothy

[Seas The Moment]

Originally Posted by wholybee

I question if the lawyers will be all over it. In fact, I don't believe there is any requirement for a recreational boat to use certified lights at all, only that they meet the visibility requirements. Certainly not authoritative, but from marinebeam, read the description:

https://store.marinebeam.com/double-...mount-cluster/

I agree with how much better an LED fixture is over a retrofit bulb. If buying a new fixture for a mast on the ground, no doubt that is what you buy. But changing a fixture at the top of a mast is both expensive and a royal PITA. Changing a bulb is cheap and easy, so when the incandescent bulb burns out, a retrofit bulb makes a lot of sense. My LED bulbs (Dr. LED brand, both the tri-color on the mast and red/green bow lights that are subject to spray) lasted 5 years and 30,000 ocean miles. At that point I replaced them as a matter of preventative maintenance, they still worked fine. The contacts were cleaned and polished, and then coated with dielectric grease. That is why they lasted.

Thanks for putting the link to Marinebeam. When I went there, I became aware that I was a repeat customer. And it was here that I ordered my LED's from 5 years ago. The quantity that I ordered also meant that I had backups. Made me start searching into my storage area. Unfortunately I only located one, so another order has been placed.


Thanks everyone for your help

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Seas The Moment

Thanks for putting the link to Marinebeam. When I went there, I became aware that I was a repeat customer. And it was here that I ordered my LED's from 5 years ago. The quantity that I ordered also meant that I had backups. Made me start searching into my storage area. Unfortunately I only located one, so another order has been placed.


Thanks everyone for your help

The led mebtioned in the referenced articles are very standard Chinese brands. I suspect almost everything supposedly is made in China anyway

[wholybee]

The Dr. LED brand bulb that I used and lasted for 5 years and was still working when replaced was definitely not a typical generic Chinese bulb. It has a heat sink, about 1.5" in diameter at the base, and when illuminated the 3 sectors are clearly different color temperatures for each lens color. I've not used the marinebeam, but I know it is popular and a reputable brand.

I also have run into many boats complaining about AIS reception issues, and when I ask them to turn off their lights, all of the sudden it works. It isn't an imaginary problem with cheap bulbs. There may be other factors involved, making the problem not exist on a specific installation.

The bulb that I use:
https://www.doctorled.com/store/nav-...r-Star-40-MKII

I have had "buddy boats" comment on how far away they can seem me compared to other boats, and also how true the colors are compared to cheap LEDs, which often turn the red color into a magenta, and the green into a cyan. So, I will keep using that expensive bulb.

If cheap bulbs work in your installation, great keep using them, but I can't recommend them.

[Rumrace]

It’s the infamous 1156-1157. Chevy they were never designed for LED in the 50’s.
LED lamps which adapt to popular 120, 220v, and 12V are a joke of a product as compared to a commercial LED fixture. It’s chinas way of changing perceived values and that a facade is good enough. Change sockets and upgrade to modern lamps and constant current supply.
I know a lot of very clever people in LED systems. I’ve only seen architectural grade LED recessed in a Hanse. Must have been a serious upgrade or the owner knew too much about unhealthy glare bombs.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

It’s the infamous 1156-1157. Chevy they were never designed for LED in the 50’s.
LED lamps which adapt to popular 120, 220v, and 12V are a joke of a product as compared to a commercial LED fixture. It’s chinas way of changing perceived values and that a facade is good enough. Change sockets and upgrade to modern lamps and constant current supply.
I know a lot of very clever people in LED systems. I’ve only seen architectural grade LED recessed in a Hanse. Must have been a serious upgrade or the owner knew too much about unhealthy glare bombs.

Dont get your point re domestic leds. Ive 35 Chinese led fittings on the boat now for 2 years zero problems.

Sure they are cheap products doesn’t mean there are bad.

[Uncle Bob]

Quote Rumrace.
It’s the infamous 1156-1157. Chevy they were never designed for LED in the 50’s.
LED lamps which adapt to popular 120, 220v, and 12V are a joke of a product as compared to a commercial LED fixture. It’s chinas way of changing perceived values and that a facade is good enough. Change sockets and upgrade to modern lamps and constant current supply.
I know a lot of very clever people in LED systems. I’ve only seen architectural grade LED recessed in a Hanse. Must have been a serious upgrade or the owner knew too much about unhealthy glare bombs.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Dont get your point re domestic leds. Ive 35 Chinese led fittings on the boat now for 2 years zero problems.

Sure they are cheap products doesn’t mean there are bad.

Yeah, more made up crap, like you I switched to led bulbs a few years ago and after finding ones that were of the colour and quality that suited me I have been a happy camper and use a lot less power.