Matching solar panels to batteries to consumption

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Sauntress

That was what I worked out with one of those on line calculators, which as you say is less than your recommended 50. Whilst I am here, the controller which is a component of the setup not only prevents overcharging and leakage back when not charging, but will shut down the lights if the batteries run too low, which could be inconvenient. Is that right and can it be overriden if need be?

Have to insert a minor correction the only things that would be shut off by the controller by low battery condition are the ones you are powering directly thru the charge controllers load output leg ( which you don't even need to hook up.)
It won't affect any of your normally wired power draws that are from the battery bank.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Sauntress

Whilst I am here, the controller which is a component of the setup not only prevents overcharging and leakage back when not charging, but will shut down the lights if the batteries run too low, which could be inconvenient. Is that right and can it be overriden if need be?

With the lighting circuits connected to the batteries as they are (presumably through some sort of distribution panel), they will not be shut down by the charger, and will operate as long as the batteries are sufficiently charged (as they are now).

Most controllers are equipped with a load output, that provides battery voltage to anything connected, as long as sun is shining on the panels. This is a good power supply for the anchor light(s). If the anchor light is turned on, it will only come on if it is dark out, and will automatically shut off, when it becomes light out. This output is not really suitable for cabin lights, as one may need interior lighting when it is perfectly sunny out (and especially when overcast). This output could also be used for powering navigation light circuits, but may come on a little later (darker) than required by colregs.

Most controllers with one of these load outputs, have a low voltage cut-off to disconnect the load if the battery voltage drops too low. (Typically 10.5 volts which is deader than dead, but the value is programmable on some.)

One should assure that any electrical system powering an anchor light, is capable of providing sufficient voltage (at least 12.0 Vdc) at all times, so a low voltage cut-off is to protect the batteries from an unusual fault condition, not to shut off the light on a regular basis.

It is wonderful that you are asking so many questions about this system and potential options. I suggest that you get someone on board, who is very familiar with marine electrical systems and standards, to help you with selection and implementation.

I do this for hire (albeit not in your area). All to often, I see boaters, reluctant to part with any amount of money to a contractor, who end up wasting a whole lot of time, effort, and money, creating unsafe electrical wiring hazards. FLA batteries store enough energy to easily hurt you and burn your boat to the waterline many times over, if not handled and wired correctly.

If you are fair and honest with the contractor up front (e.g. I just want you to have a look at my boat and suggest best set-up, most will do this for a very modest fee. If you do not feel 100% confident you can complete the work to marine electrical standards, you should request an estimate, and have it completed professionally.

Warning! Ask to see the technician's credentials before you allow them on your boat. A certified marine electrical or electronic technician will carry a card (issued by a recognizable marine standards association or manufacturer) in their wallet and have a commercial liability insurance certificate to show you. They will charge a fair buck for their time, because they can, they are worth it, and hence can make their livelihood doing it. Just because someone agrees to take your money (or a few beer) for work performed, does not make them a "technician" or "professional". Ask to see the certs, or don't let them on your boat.

I get called to repair botched electrical work all the time, because someone's friend of a friend of a friend was a general labourer for a residential electrical company twenty or some years ago. Half the time, all of the stuff has to be ripped out and the original perceived "savings" actually cost double. Just remember that if there is no written guarantee for a specified period and coverage, there is no obligation or accountability on the part of the work performer.

While it won't make any difference to a true professional and "certified" contractor, never tell a contractor (especially one without certs) that you are on a cruise and will never likely be back this way again; it is far better that they believe they will "own" their work, and be accountable to you, forever.

Raymarine Certified Installer / Service Provider # Ray1918

[donradcliffe]

Just remember that any solar controller that gets in the way--either of charging a dead battery, or running a piece of equipment you really need--can be bypassed in 5 minutes with a screwdriver.

The one time in 15 years of living aboard that I had a battery cell short, I knew it in an hour or two when the battery monitor started beeping, had it diagnosed and isolated in another half an hour (at 0300), and had the engine started and charging the remaining batteries in another 15 minutes. It ain't rocket science.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Just remember that any solar controller that gets in the way--either of charging a dead battery, or running a piece of equipment you really need--can be bypassed in 5 minutes with a screwdriver.

The one time in 15 years of living aboard that I had a battery cell short, I knew it in an hour or two when the battery monitor started beeping, had it diagnosed and isolated in another half an hour (at 0300), and had the engine started and charging the remaining batteries in another 15 minutes. It ain't rocket science.

Wait a minute! Rockets have electrical systems, not so different than boats. ;-)

All kidding aside, electricity / electronics is a science, and designing, configuring, wiring, and troubleshooting electrical systems can be an art.

A 2 year old can participate in an art, where to become a "master" of it, takes years of education, experience, inherent aptitude, and developed skill.

[newhaul]

Installing.solar panels and.wiring.them to your system is dead simple. Just follow the instructions included with the.controller and panels. Just remember one little rule. Load to source. ( your batteries are the load and your panels are the source.) Hook batteries to the controler then hook the panels.to the.controler ( hooking.panels to controler first.can dammage the controller)

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Installing.solar panels and.wiring.them to your system is dead simple. Just follow the instructions included with the.controller and panels. Just remember one little rule. Load to source. ( your batteries are the load and your panels are the source.) Hook batteries to the controler then hook the panels.to the.controler ( hooking.panels to controler first.can dammage the controller)

At least 50% of the DIY electrical installations I inspect are not ABYC compliant, and about 20% are patently unsafe and could cause an easily avoidable fire.

Two years ago, a friend, was obviously not paying attention during one of my marine electrical seminars he attended, at least during the battery handling safety precautions section. He received second degree burns to his right wrist, when his gold watch contacted the positive post and the wrench he was using on the negative post also contact the watch. He then received second degree burns to his left hand, removing a very hot watch.

Never underestimate the potential hazards of handling batteries and performing marine electrical wiring.

PS, the most important reason to not connect the panel before connecting to the battery is so that one doesn't create a big spark and blow the boat up if hydrogen (or some other) gas is present at the battery.

So I guess yes, one can be dead, because they were being simple.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

PS, the most important reason to not connect the panel before connecting to the battery is so that one doesn't create a big spark and blow the boat up if hydrogen (or some other) gas is present at the battery.

So I guess yes, one can be dead, because they were being simple.

Actualy if you say that . I would assume you dont read to many solar.charge.controller install instructions. Every one I have installed state in the instruction pamphlets that connecting the controller before the batteries you will cause irreparable damage to the controller.
Next If you have sufficient explosive gas buildup to cause an explosion you have far bigger issues than improper install of solar panels.

[Pete7]

I put a thick towel over the panel before connecting, seemed to do the trick.

Pete

[Paul Elliott]

Some controllers recommend connecting the panel before connecting the battery. Here's one: https://genasun.com/all-products/sol...ge-controller/

[mitiempo]

Victron is the opposite - connect battery first, then panel.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Actualy if you say that . I would assume you dont read to many solar.charge.controller install instructions. Every one I have installed state in the instruction pamphlets that connecting the controller before the batteries you will cause irreparable damage to the controller.
Next If you have sufficient explosive gas buildup to cause an explosion you have far bigger issues than improper install of solar panels.

IMHO, it is more important to prevent the boat from blowing sky high and burning all the occupants before they freakin' drown, than to protect a cheap solar charge controller from damage.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

IMHO, it is more important to prevent the boat from blowing sky high and burning all the occupants before they freakin' drown, than to protect a cheap solar charge controller from damage.

Rod we are on the same page in a way . Hooking the solar charging system iaw the manufacturers instructions does both . Protect the charge controler and the boater from himself.

[Sauntress]

Originally Posted by Vasco

I know this isn't the question but the first thing I'd do is swap out the 25w bulb for an LED.

x

Take that as done. Now we have.

tricolour 25 watt minus 75% gives 6.25 watt gives 0.52 amps.
compass (as before non LED) 0.10

Usage, 9 hours thus 0.62 x 9 gives, say 6 amps per night.

Plus

VHF XMDSC 0.6amps (say)
The two cabin lights 10 watt incandescent 0.8
The Galley flourescent 8 watts 0.66
The chart table lamp 8 watts 0.66
Hawkeye Depth Finder 40 mA 0.4

Equals 2.92

But these are hardly ever used say 1 hour all told thus 2.92

Total 6.0
plus 2.9

Say 10 amps

For which the 50 0r 60 watt semiflexible solar panel
10a (?) MPPT (no or less power loss?) regulator
Battery monitor (do I really need this?) and the existing
selector switch

Remember I have bobbed around for decades without all this, that I use oil lamps, torches, battery driven GPS radio etc (oil fuelled dioptric anchor light) extensively and am a compulsive switcher off of all things electric, my question now is whether all this looks about right?

Ta

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Ironman162

. . .

Also bear in mind that in time the mini maxi grows into a super maxi!

You may start modest but as time goes by one tend to add equipment to make life easier...like a phone charger or a small inverter to charge a cordless drill or a computer/tablet etc... not to mention maybe a small refrigerator later on...who likes warm beer on a sublime evening?



. . .

About post #22 the OP indicated he/she had been sailing engineless for about 20yr. I don't think scope creep is something they're going to have much problem with.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Sauntress

x

Take that as done. Now we have.

tricolour 25 watt minus 75% gives 6.25 watt gives 0.52 amps.
compass (as before non LED) 0.10

Usage, 9 hours thus 0.62 x 9 gives, say 6 amps per night.

Plus

VHF XMDSC 0.6amps (say)
The two cabin lights 10 watt incandescent 0.8
The Galley flourescent 8 watts 0.66
The chart table lamp 8 watts 0.66
Hawkeye Depth Finder 40 mA 0.4

Equals 2.92

But these are hardly ever used say 1 hour all told thus 2.92

Total 6.0
plus 2.9

Say 10 amps

For which the 50 0r 60 watt semiflexible solar panel
10a (?) MPPT (no or less power loss?) regulator
Battery monitor (do I really need this?) and the existing
selector switch

Remember I have bobbed around for decades without all this, that I use oil lamps, torches, battery driven GPS radio etc (oil fuelled dioptric anchor light) extensively and am a compulsive switcher off of all things electric, my question now is whether all this looks about right?

Ta

First off all sounds about right. One item I would change is the oil anchor light change to an led anchor light. ( you will still has plentry of solar to make up for it) it will pay for itself in short order in saved oil.
Now to the controller for your install I would recommend something like the p20l pwm controller https://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-R.../dp/B015S39PTU the charge points are programmable to maxamise your system. Use the money saved over an mppt controller to pay for the led anchor light.