Mis-wired 12VDC jack (let the smoke out)

[basssears]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

With the proliferation of solar panels and to a lesser extent wind turbines for residential purposes, now homes and office buildings also have hybrid Ac and Dc wiring.
Do you know what land electrical codes are doing with this conflict in color coding hell?

I am just finishing up building a power system for a cabin that has no grid power. I used the "typical" AC & DC colors accordingly (for DC red&yellow, for AC black&white&green). But I fortunately don't have much of a "mix", as the whole cabin is wired with standard AC and there's no DC circuits mixed in, just DC coming from solar and generator into batteries then from battery to inverter, everything beyond inverter is standard AC colors.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Spot

The sticker shock for me is the actual crimps. The nicer heat-shrink ones go for quite a bit more than the hardware store types. Do people have a preferred source?

What I've been using with good results (surely not to MaineSail's standards, but I'm trying!) are the FTZ Ratcheting crimper for up to 10ga:
https://baymarinesupply.com/ftz-ratc...onnectors.html
(I bought mine from GoodBoatGear.com but their site doesn't load anymore?)

These wire strippers:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And adhesive heat shrink connectors from Lawrence Marine (TinnedMarineWire.com):
Heat Shrink Terminals : Tinned Marine Wire, The power behind it all

The prices on the connectors from TinnedMarineWire.com are a little less expensive than the Ancor connectors, but still not cheap, but I actually think they do a better job and I now prefer them to the Ancors.

I've used TinnedMarineWire.com quite a few times and been very happy with them, and use them to make up heavier wires with crimped lugs for me and have been happy with that too (although recently bought a hammer crimped for 6awg & 8awg and have been surprised how well it worked).

-- Bass

[basssears]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

Hey, you missed out on one available experience; maybe you'll have it in the future: welding your screwdriver (or pocket knife) across the unfused terminals, complete with fireworks.

Not to contribute to thread drift, but I recently came across the idea to use clear tubing to cover terminals on batteries to prevent this exact same welding / sparking terrifying thing, much cheaper than store bought battery terminal covers and works just as well:

Different sizes can be used on your battery interconnects and the clamp on automotive style terminals that don't get used:

[hellosailor]

"Proper color coding for 12Vdc wiring is red for positive, and black for negative. "
That's so 1950's. But it isn't right any more.
Granted, most cars and daysailors don't typically have 120VAC on board, but in "boat" wiring it becomes normal to have AC and DC wiring, and in AC wiring, the black wire is the hot (lethal) wire.
So the boating industry has pretty much switched over from red-and-oops to red-and-yellow, with yellow being used for the negative battery wiring. That makes it impossible for someone to grab an AC hot wire and kill themselves if they are used to working on boats and one day, they just happen to work on a boat with AC wiring too.

Places like GenuineDealz.com all readily sell marine grade wire (tinned) in red-and-yellow duplex pairs.

Yeah, I know, it just seems wrong to be using yellow wire for battery negative. But the industry made the switch for good reason, and it doesn't cost anything extra to follow it. Most of the less expensive red-and-black duplex wire that you can get these days is inevitably copper clad aluminum ("CCA") so it has less carrying capacity and higher resistance as well.

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

That's nearly the only use my ciggie plugs are for - USB charging. There are plenty of 12Vdc USB replacement outlets on Amazon or MPJones too. They are pretty inexpensive, and often include some useful features like voltmeters or LED lights.
I just ordered a couple to retrofit my boat. I have a handheld vhf charger that needs the old style plug, so I'll save one.

Maine Sail has some interesting thoughts on the subject of USB chargers in the article linked below, look for the section titled "Not All 12V USB Chargers Are Created Equal".

https://marinehowto.com/ipad-charging-how-much-energy/

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

Maine Sail has some interesting thoughts on the subject of USB chargers in the article linked below, look for the section titled "Not All 12V USB Chargers Are Created Equal".

https://marinehowto.com/ipad-charging-how-much-energy/

MaineSail as usual makes good points. My other issue with the purpose built USB chargers is they're now in there (semi) permanently. I put some in my van when they first starting being popular, then I had a single 1.0A USB charger that all my newer devices protest hugely over. So each time the top charging amps change (which isn't that big a deal if the device will still slow charge on lesser amps, but many won't) I have to replace the whole USB plug instead of just changing out the cigarette lighter -> USB adapter.


FWIW I have used Scosche chargers in both personal vehicles and work rigs and been happy with them.

[Moontide]

Bummer, I thought blue was the new ABYC 12 volt negative and just did some wiring. Many that is EU since the 12 volt manufacturer wiring is red and light blue. Of course I did a lot before and used black. Only good thing is the wire is mostly very small (LED lights, etc.) so any 110 would melt it in an instant. Hopefully before it could start a fire.


QUestion for the group. Is the yellow limited to smaller wire sizes. Don't think I've ever seen 1/0 and up wire in anything but red and black.


Bill

[hellosailor]

Good question, Bill. I've never seen a yellow battery cable but then again, I don't go around boat shows or knocking on hulls and asking to see the battery cables.(G)

In a cable size, I wouldn't be as concerned with black, since really, where is there going to be a 00 AWG AC line on a boat? Ship, maybe. Boat...not so much.

USB standards have changed. "USB" just means USB 1.0 and that's not saying a lot, it only calls for 500mA. In contrast to USB3 and USB-C, where 3000mA is the new normal (for a year or two now?) and USB-C and USB 3.2 (whatever they're calling it) both can push lots more voltage and current.

I've got some old car chargers that are still maybe 1000mA, I went through everything a year or two ago and pulled anything less into a "orphans" bag. Most of them, AC or DC, are at least one 2000mA cord. The new ones, way more, because the new gear can take more faster, and I know that any "charger" I bought this year, is probably going to need to be more than that to be useful in two more years. Also, USB-C, and fortunately there are USBmicro/USB-C adapters, both ways, that just clip onto the cord to stay handy.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Spot

Main reason for 12VDC outlet was for USB charge plugs.
Maybe a pre-wired USB power setup would be better.
I will have to check the amps on the socket, it is purpose built as aux power and not a cigarette lighter.

I put 4 USB jacks in our 19' trailer-sailor. I used two double-USB sockets I sawed from dead PC motherboards. I'm running all 4 from a single DC-DC step-down board ($2 from China), fused at the 12 v in for about 2 A, since we don't yet have any heavy USB draws. Besides charging for our gadgets, the jacks also power USB gooseneck lamps for reading etc. Very handy!


Re negative 12v going to yellow wire: the reason I heard is that black is often used for ground bonding, which shouldn't also be part of a live DC circuit.


Final note, proper AC wiring should be jacketed or in a conduit, and have all connections inside a suitable enclosure, so there should really be no opportunity to encounter a live black AC wire adjacent to DC wiring... but I know it's still done in some budget combo (AC/DC) boat panels.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I put 4 USB jacks in our 19' trailer-sailor...

Lake-Effect,
Did you have a DC panel already in the boat or did you add that too?

I am trying to decide whether to keep on keeping on with my homemade panel with fuses and toggle switches or order something pre-wired with breakers, switches, USB plug, voltmeter...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076P41621

[john61ct]

Seems at least among my vendors, yellow is not common in thicker sizes, above #6 anyway?

Red and black in big thick bank wiring would be pretty obvious, can't see anyone with a clue thinking that was AC

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Moontide

QUestion for the group. Is the yellow limited to smaller wire sizes. Don't think I've ever seen 1/0 and up wire in anything but red and black.

I am using #6 yellow for negative on the solar build I'm doing for a cabin. I see on TinnedMarineWire.com they sell 4/0 in yellow if you really want it!

Never could find a color code for battery interconnects when running batteries in series, so went with black 2/0, just to confuse everything!

-- Bass

(P.S. In case anyone's taking my info too seriously, you should know when I first got my 1985 Toyota 4Runner I wired a bunch of things using white wire... for EVERYTHING... positive, negative, this circuit, that circuit... hey, I've got white wire, I'll use that!! Figured it would be too cruel to sell that mess - that even I don't understand now - to anyone else, so had to keep it and keep driving it)

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by basssears

TinnedMarineWire.com

Anyone know who makes the wire they sell?

Good stuff afaik is Pacer, EPM, Ancor and Berkshire. Cobra not so much.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

Multimeters are cheap, no reason to do any electrical work without one. Your boat should have a minimum set of tools - including a DVM - onboard at all time.
Proper color coding for 12Vdc wiring is red for positive, and black for negative. Green is for 110Vac earth ground.
You had bell wire, re-wired with something else, and now will take the time to get the right tools and wire?
You must have an awful lot of free time.

If Im not mistaken, the recommended DC Neg color these days is Yellow. So it is not confused with AC Active (Hot) Black.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by basssears

This is the color scheme you will find on most boats as that used to be the standard, but if you wish to follow current ABYC coloring standards it has moved to red for positive and yellow for negative, the thinking being if you use black of negative there is a danger of confusing a black DC negative wire with a black AC hot wire, not such danger with a yellow DC negative.

Oops beat me to it. That will teach me to reply to a post before getting to the end.