My attempt to murder my Firefly Batteries

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

Maine Sail has writeups on both. the new one uses a shunt. the old one seems to work just fine. I don't know the difference. Maybe Maine Sail can discuss any difference.

yes. His evaluations are always valuable on many products.


I've had both the Smartgage and the SG200 and the Smartgage was simply a positive and negative wire to the bank and it gave voltage and accurate state of charge without having to adjust for Ah degradation.

The SG200 provides that as well as, amp draw, state of health, and time to a target depth of discharge. The later is by programing the SG200 to your bank type and capacity. Additionally, you can network several of the Smart Shuts to one gauge. So far I am pleased with the SG200. Time will tell if it is accurate on state of health.



Jim

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

I assume you mean fat fingering? just another way of saying typing an error. I typed the wrong setting into the configuration program!

No, I really meant how does methanol work with batteries?

-Chris

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

No, I really meant how does methanol work with batteries?

-Chris

Methanol is the fuel for the fuel cell. Some fuel cells use propane, diesel, etc. This one is methanol.

When the battery gets low, the fuel cell kicks on, starting a charging routine to charge the battery.

some more detailed info
https://www.efoy-comfort.com/how-it-works

Easiest way I explain it is, it is a battery charger, instead of being powered by electricity, it is powered by methanol instead.

It really doesn't power devices directly. It is (well mine is, unsure about new units) connected only to the battery bank directly. Its not like you can plug a cell phone charger into it.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

Methanol is the fuel for the fuel cell. Some fuel cells use propane, diesel, etc. This one is methanol.

When the battery gets low, the fuel cell kicks on, starting a charging routine to charge the battery.

some more detailed info
https://www.efoy-comfort.com/how-it-works

Easiest way I explain it is, it is a battery charger, instead of being powered by electricity, it is powered by methanol instead.

It really doesn't power devices directly. It is (well mine is, unsure about new units) connected only to the battery bank directly. Its not like you can plug a cell phone charger into it.

Ah. Thanks. Got it now.

-Chris

[Captain Randy]

This is great news on Fire Fly as I have also read other favorable reports. I am ordering (4) G31 12v to replace my 6 Trojan T145's tomorrow. As I found out they can be a little challenging to source however I confirmed this morning that Fisheries Supply has many in stock for quick shipment.
Thanks
CR

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Captain Randy

This is great news on Fire Fly as I have also read other favorable reports. I am ordering (4) G31 12v to replace my 6 Trojan T145's tomorrow. As I found out they can be a little challenging to source however I confirmed this morning that Fisheries Supply has many in stock for quick shipment.
Thanks
CR

Lucky you! I just wish there was a source here in Oz. Shipping internationally is damn expensive!

Jim

[FredVeroMakani]

Hi,
I got a little less luck.
I got 4 FF G31 batteries two years ago and they are now not holding more than 50% of their capacity.
I use mainly solar (350W) and my 200amp alternator to charge them.
When I first got them, I could not get more than 75% rated capacity.
After a year, one battery was found faulty, so it got changed a year ago under warranty. Three new ones are on their way now, still under warranty. Costumer service from Firefly and the distributor (Ocean Energy) has been amazing... but I still handle the cost of shipping and an incredible amount of time to test, restore and maintain them... So far, it would have make more sense to switch to Lithium (DIY) in the first place.

I would be glad to have an experience expert sharing some more information about how reliable these batteries are.
I m heading into the south Pacific soon and would rather have a reliable and performant system on board. thanks

[a64pilot]

Your not going to like my opinion, but if you want bullet proof known reliability, best answer is lead, something that has decades of proven use and nothing new and exotic.

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Your not going to like my opinion, but if you want bullet proof known reliability, best answer is lead, something that has decades of proven use and nothing new and exotic.

Which is what the firefly batteries are.. they are lead acid batteries with foam between the plates (or something like that)

I am a fan of LA batteries, but I tend kill them, with prejudice! I put my boat away on a mooring, regardless of the state of charge..so they are always at a PSOC, and just die way too fast by too many PSOC cycles. The firefly seem to be taking this constant PSOC abuse in stride.

So far, the FF batteries have lived nearly as long as the entire life of the last set of LA batteries. No real sign of slowing down.

But yes, if someone can take good care of LA batteries and not put them to bed in a PSOC , they are a great value and great choice. I just am not one of those people, unfortunately.

The FF seems to be a good alternative between LA and Lithium options.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

. . .The FF seems to be a good alternative between LA and Lithium options.

The big advantage of FF is that it doesn't require any reconfiguration of your power system. This partially (or entirely) offsets the higher cost of FF compared to lithium, by saving money on the BMS and other control and switching systems.

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The big advantage of FF is that it doesn't require any reconfiguration of your power system. This partially (or entirely) offsets the higher cost of FF compared to lithium, by saving money on the BMS and other control and switching systems.

Yup one of many. I got them for THAT reason, and their ability to deeper discharge, faster charging, and LA based technology.

So far they are holding up. If I get another 4-5 years of my abuse, I will be satisfied (impressed actually).

But yes, drop-in swap ready is a huge advantage for sure!

[rgleason]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

..I am a fan of LA batteries, but I tend kill them, with prejudice! I put my boat away on a mooring, regardless of the state of charge..so they are always at a PSOC, and just die way too fast by too many PSOC cycles. The firefly seem to be taking this constant PSOC abuse in stride...
if someone can take good care of LA batteries and not put them to bed in a PSOC , they are a great value and great choice. I just am not one of those people, unfortunately.

Why not use that very nice EFOY set to automatic with monthly equalization, to recharge from PSOC levels up to 100% and to maintain the FLA batteries while you are away? Then you would not need the expense of the FireFly batteries?

The alternative of course, is to have an adequate Solar PV array to recharge, say 50w to 250w and even more, depending on the size of your battery bank and your use. I understand your boat is not suited for this alternative however.

So what are the other reasons that you can think of for your use of FF, if the EFOY is able to avoid PSOC (and also able to equalize) a good sized FLA bank (that is much cheaper, proven to be reliable, and that you say you do like)?

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Why not use that very nice EFOY set to automatic with monthly equalization, to recharge from PSOC levels up to 100% and to maintain the FLA batteries while you are away? Then you would not need the expense of the FireFly batteries?

The alternative of course, is to have an adequate Solar PV array to recharge, say 50w to 250w and even more, depending on the size of your battery bank and your use. I understand your boat is not suited for this alternative however.

So what are the other reasons that you can think of for your use of FF, if the EFOY is able to avoid PSOC (and also able to equalize) a good sized FLA bank (that is much cheaper, proven to be reliable, and that you say you do like)?

That must be a new feature on the newer EFOY models. I don't remember seeing anything like that on my model.

I do have a small 35w portable panel with a mppt controller which does a reasonable job getting the batteries near full when I am not using the boat. The FF seem to like to charge pretty quick, at least quicker than my last set of Rolls batteries.

The features I like with the FF is their resistance to sulfation, ability to recover to 100% if abused, ability to deeper discharge than typical LA batteries. They don't seem to mind discharging 60+% down. They can be mounted in most positions like a AGM. No worried about the orientation for mounted and worrying if the top of the plates are exposed when heeling.. no forgetting to check the water level.. A lot of things I do not miss about LA batteries .

The difference in cost between the LA batteries I had and the FF was minimal, maybe a couple hundred $ for similar amp hours. So far the cost per amp hour is on track to be a tiny portion of the LA were, as the batteries are at the age (or soon will be) when my rolls gave up the ghost. If I get 2-3 more years or more out of them, the cost per AH will probably be half of what my old LA were.

If someone has FF batteries, cruising far away, and they do fail, they can just swap in LA batteries without changing anything in the system. they are a direct swap. deal with the warranty when you get home.

I am not selling the batteries, Just wanted to give a real life story about my experience with this relatively new type of battery. So far I am impressed. Not saying its better than FLA, AGM, lithium. I just know others are interested in how they are in real life, on a real boat, by a regular boat owner, and not controlled conditions.. I have 25+ years of using LA batteries, Murdered every single one, power boat, sail boat.. they all died fast.. I, like most owners, never gave the batteries the care they deserve. The FF sure seem to be able to take that kind of abuse!

[blueprint_33]

Interesting reading, Paul!
Tried to get these batteries in EUROPE two years ago but they weren’t on the market. Checked northstar blue instead (same technology). Does anyone gave experience in those?

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by blueprint_33

Interesting reading, Paul!
Tried to get these batteries in EUROPE two years ago but they weren’t on the market. Checked northstar blue instead (same technology). Does anyone gave experience in those?

Not at all the same technology. The technology used in the Firefly is still under patent protection..