No joy on shore power

[Sailmonkey]

What did you use as your ground reference at the panel? This may be as simple as distribution ground not being connected to the battery.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

There are no "new" details. You joked that this is a continuing adventure series so I assumed you have been following the thread and had read the original post.

All this information was published in previous comments. I said I didn't have my testing equipment with me the first time. I said there was no joy in the panel. But I could not test the batteries or the connections. I also said I was coming this week to work on the boat.

The "new" details are the facts that batteries were good and fully charged. I also confirmed that the connections from the batteries to the panel were good. I said that I was going to do that and I did. I also said I would refer to technical help once I had the need or opportunity. Both should happen today.

Stay tuned to this channel for the next episode...

Thanks.

Sorry I didn't go back and read through all 120 posts to make sure I had all the details.

I could have drawn you a troubleshooting flow chart and you could have found the problem in an hour or so even with some miscommunication involved.

Bits and pieces of information dispersed here and there between 120 posts just doesn't work well

Btw you didn't confirm that the batteries were fully charged or that the connections were good. Reading 12 volts on a meter doesn't mean much when there is no load and no current flow

You did the right thing calling the tech

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

OK, for all those interested, here is an update on the original target of this thread:

I was able to get back to the boat this morning for the first time in two weeks. (It is currently 3.5 hours away from my home.)

Let us know when you are heading out and someone will contact the local utility emergency number

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqEaIdvxXYQ

[Bigjim]

Latest episode: Some bad connections. The positive connector on 1 battery had some major corrosion. The ground connection was also bad. The tech was in an out in less than 15 minutes.

Cleaned both connections and tried charging both batteries. System seems to be working fine. Instruments, radio, cabin lighting, navigation lights all working fine. So, all the worries for nothing.

The batteries are of unknown age and don't seem to be taking a charge very well. So, I'm replacing them both this week. Stay tuned.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

Latest episode: Some bad connections. The positive connector on 1 battery had some major corrosion. The ground connection was also bad. The tech was in an out in less than 15 minutes.

Cleaned both connections and tried charging both batteries. System seems to be working fine. Instruments, radio, cabin lighting, navigation lights all working fine. So, all the worries for nothing.

The batteries are of unknown age and don't seem to be taking a charge very well. So, I'm replacing them both this week. Stay tuned.

Well, I'm glad you didn't blow the boatyard up. There is a lot of good info in this thread, and a lot of chicken little kinda stuff. Yes, you can hurt/kill yourself working with electricity, but use a little bit of common sense and you will be fine. I get the "all for safety" people, but we aren't talking barehand transmission line kind of stuff here. Boat is is on the hard, you just want to determine if the electric functions, take a quick look around to evaluate the general state of the wiring, if it looks alright, plug it in and see what you have.

I'm glad you seem to have solved your first problems, anyway.

[Mike_Thor]

see Ramblinrod reply. STOP this 'gambling' (trial and error) because it is possible that if you do not kill yourself (or nearly so) you may kill someone else (to put it bluntly). High voltage (above 50 V) can KILL and it does not take much current at all. Even playing around with your 12 VDC system as Ramblinrod says is dangerous - you can cause a spark and blow yourself up or BURN DOWN YOUR BOAT - and others around it, which is not your intention I am sure. Be assured that I would not want you next to me doing all this - for your sake as well as ours. (PS. I have a military electrical/electronic background including high voltage (radar) and some 40 years experience).

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

Well, I'm glad you didn't blow the boatyard up. There is a lot of good info in this thread, and a lot of chicken little kinda stuff. Yes, you can hurt/kill yourself working with electricity, but use a little bit of common sense and you will be fine. I get the "all for safety" people, but we aren't talking barehand transmission line kind of stuff here. Boat is is on the hard, you just want to determine if the electric functions, take a quick look around to evaluate the general state of the wiring, if it looks alright, plug it in and see what you have.

I'm glad you seem to have solved your first problems, anyway.

Thanks. Sheesh. If you only knew what kinds of Gerry-rigging I've seen in that last 60 years, and only a fraction of the people pay the price of their incompetence.

And yet, most people are killed and die doing absolutely nothing wrong at all. I read every day about people who die or are killed commuting to or from work.

I did not walk onto a derelict boat. The owners had sailed it last year. We simply had some bad connections.

As for the design of the electrical system, my opinion is that there should be a method of charging the batteries whenever you are plugged into shore power. Since the boat, in most cases is tied up, this would only be logical. I am surprised as a "newbie" that more people don't think this way.

This is nothing more than what my friends in Minnesota do in the winter to install a engine blanket and plug in whenever you park somewhere. I was shocked to see public outlets everywhere I went where people plugged in without thinking twice about it. My friends were surprised to hear that I did not have such a blanket on my car, although Chicago doesn't really have many below zero days.

I can already hear the keyboard clacking in reply...

[seahag]

BigJim,
Glad you've made some progress, and that you didn't disappear like so many other newer posters who get shelled by people here "trying to help" by belittling them about their lack of experience. If everyone who came onto this forum was so gifted in experience why would they ask questions anyway?

My take (and yeah, I have a lot of experience...go figure!), is electrical work is simplicity at it's finest. There is nothing mysterious about it. It is 100% about following the rules, and the rules are drop dead simple. But, you have to know the rules. If you don't know what you're doing, get straight on it--I would get a solid book, and read it cover to cover. If that leaves any questions, work on that another way--find a qualified person you believe to have the knowledge, or take your chances on an internet forum and use all the information to make good decisions. But I like books--someone else has put their reputation on the line, and put it in print, with tons of verification behind it.

Once you have this in a manner that makes perfect sense to you, you can figure out what's missing from your boat, what's not installed correctly, and all that. At least, that's the theory. Sometimes you just can't find a source of the trouble, there is so much hidden, and convoluted within the whole system that it's hard to make sense of what is active, defunct, disconnected for a variety of reasons, or connected poorly.

I wouldn't be too overly worried about messing around with 12 volt when you've got the basic idea, but stay unplugged for sure while you're working and be on the lookout for unexpected situations that may occur, have the correct fire extinguishers available and if you have a good battery switch that you can disconnect easily in case of an issue, so much the better (I didn't look at the schematic).

I'm in no way discounting the possible dangers even in the way of 12 volt electrical work, as many have already been mentioned. I am only relating that it's not rocket science and you can safely work on a sailboat especially within the 12 volt side without getting into 4 year apprenticeships LOL.

Hope it all keeps going well!

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

Thanks. Sheesh. If you only knew what kinds of Gerry-rigging I've seen in that last 60 years, and only a fraction of the people pay the price of their incompetence.

And yet, most people are killed and die doing absolutely nothing wrong at all. I read every day about people who die or are killed commuting to or from work.

I did not walk onto a derelict boat. The owners had sailed it last year. We simply had some bad connections.

As for the design of the electrical system, my opinion is that there should be a method of charging the batteries whenever you are plugged into shore power. Since the boat, in most cases is tied up, this would only be logical. I am surprised as a "newbie" that more people don't think this way.

This is nothing more than what my friends in Minnesota do in the winter to install a engine blanket and plug in whenever you park somewhere. I was shocked to see public outlets everywhere I went where people plugged in without thinking twice about it. My friends were surprised to hear that I did not have such a blanket on my car, although Chicago doesn't really have many below zero days.

I can already hear the keyboard clacking in reply...

Welcome, my friend. From reading your posts, I believe you will do a fine job re-habing this boat to whatever condition you feel like is sea-worthy. Get yourself a good console mounted and (separate) handheld VHF, and sail that bad boy. A Tow-Boat US or Sea-Tow membership (whoever is where you are) is worth it's weight in gold.

Learn to sew, both manual and machine, because you will need it.

Most of all, just get out there and sail. You'll learn what you need equipment-wise and and what people know and what they don't.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Curious about the "engine blanket" in Minnesota. Is that a "block heater" kind of deal where you have a heating element in your engine block that plugs into external power, or a an actual blanket that you throw over your hood/engine?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

Latest episode: Some bad connections. The positive connector on 1 battery had some major corrosion. The ground connection was also bad. The tech was in an out in less than 15 minutes.

Cleaned both connections and tried charging both batteries. System seems to be working fine. Instruments, radio, cabin lighting, navigation lights all working fine. So, all the worries for nothing.

The batteries are of unknown age and don't seem to be taking a charge very well. So, I'm replacing them both this week. Stay tuned.

Nice, but don't forget what he did because you'll need to do that again every now and then.......

Btw, I used to use a plug in battery charger at the dock but have since gone to a 100 watt solar panel with controller all for about $100.00. (my outboard has no alternator)

I have bought a few controllers though since initial install. The last one has a voltage display with flashing arrow when the battery is charged to your "float" setting. Basically charged to the voltage you want usually around 13.6-13.8 or so. I paid about $12.00 each for the other controllers which just had lights to indicate state of charge (SOC)

That might be another "fun" thread/project for you when and if you decide to hook up solar on your boat!

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

Curious about the "engine blanket" in Minnesota. Is that a "block heater" kind of deal where you have a heating element in your engine block that plugs into external power, or a an actual blanket that you throw over your hood/engine?

Yeah. That's the same thing. All my friends who live up there have them installed on their cars and trucks. In many areas you will see plugin outlets in the parking lots. When it's below zero people plug in to keep the oil thin. Engines start up like a summer day. Of course, being from Illinois, my car doesn't have one. Luckily, it started anyway. But it was tough.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Nice, but don't forget what he did because you'll need to do that again every now and then.......

Btw, I used to use a plug in battery charger at the dock but have since gone to a 100 watt solar panel with controller all for about $100.00. (my outboard has no alternator)

I have bought a few controllers though since initial install. The last one has a voltage display with flashing arrow when the battery is charged to your "float" setting. Basically charged to the voltage you want usually around 13.6-13.8 or so. I paid about $12.00 each for the other controllers which just had lights to indicate state of charge (SOC)

That might be another "fun" thread/project for you when and if you decide to hook up solar on your boat!

The boat had two working solar panels. But someone disconnected them. Good thing too. There was no controller in the setup. PO hooked them directly to the batteries. I cut out and removed the wires. When I have time, I will reinstall them the right way.

Thanks for the tip. And, I will see if there is recent thread already a thread on that topic.

[nematon785]

In the spirit of this thread I would like to tell a little story.

Melvin buys a boat. Being the cautious and safety oriented type he does the right thing and hires a Certified Marine Electrical Specialist to inspect his system before connecting shore power. The expert declares the wiring to ABYC code and acceptable for use. Melvin gleefully connects shore power.

Meanwhile gasoline fumes accumulate in the cabin due to non working blower, and propane gas accumulates in the bilge due to a cut line on a rough run that was installed long ago by a Certified Marine Tech in a hurry.

Melvin is getting ready to go to dinner and celebrate his inspection results and plugs his hair dryer in. The hair dryer switch was in the on position before he plugged it in, and as a result the plug arced just as it went into the outlet.

Melvin burnt down the entire boat yard, even with an inspection and ABYC standard wiring.

Should Melvin have hired every system specialist known to man before plugging in his hair dryer? Maybe Melvin is a candidate for the Darwin award, and we are actually better off as a species now that he is gone?

This story is just for our entertainment and introspection. luckily Melvin is not real.

No helmet can protect a lack of common sense.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by nematon785

In the spirit of this thread I would like to tell a little story.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This story is just for our entertainment and introspection. luckily Melvin is not real.

No helmet can protect a lack of common sense.

Or in these days of internet information availability, no excuse to not be able to do homework and research. There are also these things called books.