Northern Lights or Fischer Panda?

[Scrimshaw4]

Northern Lights all the way. Have had M673 for 18 years. Replaced exhaust riser at 1k. That's it! JMHO

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum

I've owned neither, but the opinions above mine accurately reflect what I've read and heard over the years. Get the Northern Lights.

I will say, though, that you're talking about a LOT of power for a Caliber 33. I have owned a Nextgen 3.5kw, and I have nothing but the highest praise for it. Smaller and cheaper by half compared to your current pair of options.

This.

The NL weighs 377 pounds! The FP weighs about the same. That's too much weight for a 33 foot boat.

Nextgen is the way to go, if you really need a generator at all. On a boat that size, I would look at putting a second large frame alternator on and using that.

[Sailmonkey]

On a 33' Caliber? Neither......JMHO.

However if you're deadset on doing this, Northern lights.

[Dougtiff]

Well, i would think a 33 ft. boat does not have alot of extra room for a gen set, and there is a different approach, i.e., a large frame 150 amp + alternator driven by a small diesel that is water cooled with a heat exchanger, Ample Power used to offer a unit like this, which i have, but is no longer in business, however there is a company "aquagen 150", that offers the same platform, i.e. a Kubota one cylinder diesel water cooled driving a 150 amp alternator, it's quiet, sips fuel,not complicated, one can work on it, and another unit can be powered off of it, like a water maker, scuba compressor, ect.

[TheThunderbird]

Kubota is good engineering, but FP made a grumpy electric unit à overly complicated and pronE to fail.

Disillusioned

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Dougtiff

Well, i would think a 33 ft. boat does not have alot of extra room for a gen set, and there is a different approach, i.e., a large frame 150 amp + alternator driven by a small diesel that is water cooled with a heat exchanger, Ample Power used to offer a unit like this, which i have, but is no longer in business, however there is a company "aquagen 150", that offers the same platform, i.e. a Kubota one cylinder diesel water cooled driving a 150 amp alternator, it's quiet, sips fuel,not complicated, one can work on it, and another unit can be powered off of it, like a water maker, scuba compressor, ect.

That's one way to do it, or you could just use the main engine, which is only 27 horsepower. A 2kW or 2.5kW heavy duty alternator will be a perfectly reasonable load on an engine that size.

[CarlF]

Just a comment on the load. I've been told by Onan guys to keep the load between 25% and 75%. That exceeding 75% for long periods (except for brief surges) is quite bad for them - at least Onans

On the low load side, I know that it is gospel that low load hurts diesel engines and am careful with my genset. It certainly can cause problems with propulsion engines. But I have several friends who leave their gensets on for days often at no/low load with no apparent problems (other than wasting fuel and hurting the environment). The manuals specifically advise against this. I don't get it.

[OndinePLC]

To be clear I am not intending to put it in a Caliber 33, that would be quite some trick and require a far larger shoe horn than I have. It is for a fifty footer.
Thank-you all for your valuable input which has overwhelmingly confirmed my own impressions of FP from bad experiences I had with them a long time ago.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Just a comment on the load. I've been told by Onan guys to keep the load between 25% and 75%. That exceeding 75% for long periods (except for brief surges) is quite bad for them - at least Onans

On the low load side, I know that it is gospel that low load hurts diesel engines and am careful with my genset. It certainly can cause problems with propulsion engines. But I have several friends who leave their gensets on for days often at no/low load with no apparent problems (other than wasting fuel and hurting the environment). The manuals specifically advise against this. I don't get it.

I think running a constant speed genset at 25% to 75% is very sound advice.

The problem with running a constant speed genset at low load is different from the problem of running your main engine at low load and RPM -- the genset, unlike your main engine, keeps buzzing away at the same RPM, pumping lots of air through and cooling off the combustion chambers. I know of plenty of cases of gensets with polished bores from owners running them all night for air conditioning -- when it cools off and the A/C starts running a really small duty cycle.

So I take that seriously, personally, and avoid running my genset at less than about 25% load (that's about 1.6kW).

I don't have the same concerns about the main engine so long as the loads are commensurate with the RPM.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by OndinePLC

To be clear I am not intending to put it in a Caliber 33, that would be quite some trick and require a far larger shoe horn than I have. It is for a fifty footer.
Thank-you all for your valuable input which has overwhelmingly confirmed my own impressions of FP from bad experiences I had with them a long time ago.

Ah, a 50 foot monohull -- that's a different kettle of fish.

In that case then for sure Northern Lights. Kohler or Onan are also good, but NL is the "gold standard" for sure.

When you size the generator, take account of how you can shave the peaks of demand with a power boosting charger/inverter. The right size shouldn't be much more than 75% of maximum sustained (not peak) loads. A smaller generator will be easier to keep well loaded, and obviously will be cheaper and lighter too.

[mickand]

DO NOT TOUCH THE PANDA - THEY ARE OVER-COMPLICATED, RUN AT 3600RPM AND PRONE TO FAILURE!

[neworleansrich]

Darn, I would have given you my Fischer Panda take out(with a fried back end), but sold it for parts. The Panda is just too complicated for mortals.

[Mr O]

I've got a Fischer Panda 4K on my 39ft sailboat. The genset is about 16 years old and only has 180 hours on it. The only place it would fit is on the opposite side of the boat from the engine access, so I have to lie on top of the engine to work on it. To get to the impeller or anything else on the far side, I have to get into the cockpit lazarette and remove the microwave box, companionway board holder and floor hatch and hang upside down! What a pain! This genset has freshwater cooling, but seawater runs thru the aluminum rotor housing which gets corroded and clogged up with salt deposits causing overheated engine and shutdown. $250 to replace the zinc water block! Bolts that hold that block stripped and needs to be drilled out and a helicoil installed, then resealed. It's very quiet outside the boat due to the exhaust water separator, but that little diesel makes a racket inside. Now its having a hard time starting even after servicing the injector and pump. Support is pretty good from the folks in Florida and we are on first name basis, unfortunately. I don't know if newer models are any better but steer clear of the older FP gensets. Not familiar with NL gensets.

[nhschneider]

I only have anecdotal experience with the Fischer Panda but one person I was talking with said, "I have a Fischer Panda and that means it doesn't work."

For what it's worth, I have a My-T-Gen from Aqua Marine https://aquamarineinc.net/minigen.php and it's been okay for its 2,000-hour+ life.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Mr O

I've got a Fischer Panda 4K on my 39ft sailboat. The genset is about 16 years old and only has 180 hours on it. The only place it would fit is on the opposite side of the boat from the engine access, so I have to lie on top of the engine to work on it. To get to the impeller or anything else on the far side, I have to get into the cockpit lazarette and remove the microwave box, companionway board holder and floor hatch and hang upside down! What a pain! This genset has freshwater cooling, but seawater runs thru the aluminum rotor housing which gets corroded and clogged up with salt deposits causing overheated engine and shutdown. $250 to replace the zinc water block! Bolts that hold that block stripped and needs to be drilled out and a helicoil installed, then resealed. It's very quiet outside the boat due to the exhaust water separator, but that little diesel makes a racket inside. Now its having a hard time starting even after servicing the injector and pump. Support is pretty good from the folks in Florida and we are on first name basis, unfortunately. I don't know if newer models are any better but steer clear of the older FP gensets. Not familiar with NL gensets.

Regarding your hard starting, try resetting your valve clearances. The motor is very sensitive to valves and even a modest offset can make starting quite difficult.

Regarding your raw water coolant issues, short run times will exacerbate salt build-up. When the engine is only run for a short while at a time, the raw water is heated up--which promotes salt precipitation--but not circulated through the cooling system and discharged long enough to flush out salt build-up. This can be countered by adding a fresh water flush to your raw water system annually using "SaltAway" or a similar salt remover. It is actually a fairly easy exercise. Disconnect the engine input raw water line from your anti-siphon valve; and, the rubber hose that connects the heat exchanger discharge to the exhaust manifold injection nozzle. Temporarily connect a hose attached to a small submersible bilge pump to the hose normally leading to the exhaust injection nozzle; and, a length of hose to the raw water input line disconnected from your anti-siphon valve that is long enough to reach a bucket in which the submersible bilge pump can be situated. A few gallons of fresh water with a solution of SaltAway in the bucket can be recirculated through the cooling circuit for a couple of hours, followed by a couple of flushes with fresh water only, will clear out salt build-up and help prevent over-heating.

The FP has the advantages of compactness and, with the sound shield, quite operation. It is, however, very sensitive to good routine maintenance for which one needs easy access to all sides of the machine. The machines that I have seen with problems are those with difficult access and, consequently, less rigorous maintenance. If you just want to "Set-it and forget-it", a less precise generator, albeit larger and noisier, is a better choice.

FWIW...