Northern Lights or Fischer Panda?

[malbert73]

I’ve never found someone with a FP long term who has had great things to say about it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by motion30

This is not even a close choice Google Fischer Panda and see what people have to say about that. The northern lights will provide you with long and reliable service

Exactly.


Northern Lights is considered the very best of the best, and most reliable.


FP is considered just about the worst and least reliable.


No need to think about this even one second.

[Chotu]

I'm not even going to read the thread.

NORTHERN LIGHTS

[Michael Cobbe]

I've mentioned in another thread the Northern Lights gemerators are the ones that have to be least repaired. What I found was the previous owner had fitted a Lombardini engine which is the same as a Fisher Panda, it commited sucide after 500 hours and was not repairable.

[skipperpete]

Add me to the NL fan club. I was a pro Kohler guy until they committed engineering suicide by using the dreaded Lombardini disposable engine, at least in the 6-9kva marine lineup. The ones with Yanmar prime movers are still good though apart from the short lived and expensive control panel.
What is it that causes a trusted American company to import a shoddy Italian engine to power their once reliable gensets!!!?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

... What is it that causes a trusted American company to import a shoddy Italian engine to power their once reliable gensets!!!?

Customers who value price, over value?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

Add me to the NL fan club. I was a pro Kohler guy until they committed engineering suicide by using the dreaded Lombardini disposable engine, at least in the 6-9kva marine lineup. The ones with Yanmar prime movers are still good though apart from the short lived and expensive control panel.
What is it that causes a trusted American company to import a shoddy Italian engine to power their once reliable gensets!!!?

I have a Kohler EFOZ 8kW/6.5kW, circa 2000 and with about 2500 hours on it. Powered by the three cylinder Yanmar tractor engine. It's a fine piece of machinery.



Different generators are designed for different jobs. The two broad categories are "standy" and "prime power". The standy ones are cheaper and lighter; the prime power ones are much more heavily built and made to last. They are designed to run continuously.


If you can afford the weight and the cost, you certainly want a low speed prime power rated generator like NL.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If you can afford the weight and the cost, you certainly want a low speed prime power rated generator like NL.

Indeed. 1800 RPM generators like Onan, Kohler, and NL start at around 400 lbs for a 6kw. They are a bit more expensive compared to FP and NextGen, but, in my opinion, given the other costs of install and servicing, not a deal-killer. The biggest difference besides weight is size - the FP is especially compact, as is the NextGen. Many sailboats simple won't have space for a work-horse like an NL.

[malbert73]

Yes but don’t lump nextgen with FP. Next gen is the “intermediate” solution by using reduction gear belt to run a Kubota engine (industrial, same model in 5.5KW model as refrigeration truck compressor motors by the 1000s worldwide) at 2800 RPM not 3600.
So Nextgen (which I have) is perfect for lower weight intermission use but much more robust than FP IMHO. No need for NL unless you really plan to run 24-7 or close. Mine is awesome and apart from a capacitor replacement every 5-7 years ($50 part, 10 min of time) pretty much no issues

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Yes but don’t lump nextgen with FP. Next gen is the “intermediate” solution by using reduction gear belt to run a Kubota engine (industrial, same model in 5.5KW model as refrigeration truck compressor motors by the 1000s worldwide) at 2800 RPM not 3600.
So Nextgen (which I have) is perfect for lower weight intermission use but much more robust than FP IMHO. No need for NL unless you really plan to run 24-7 or close. Mine is awesome and apart from a capacitor replacement every 5-7 years ($50 part, 10 min of time) pretty much no issues

The NextGen was about $2000 less than the NL. I just felt the NL was a better value despite the additional cost. In the research I did, I just didn't think it stacked-up to NL and also wondered if the NextGen might raise an eyebrow at resale, at least in the Trawler resale market.

Finally, I'll note that my first route was to find a lightly used generator. I found several used FPs. Not a single NL. Makes me wonder if folks swap FPs for something else. I didn't find evidence of swapping NLs. Matter of fact, asking used equipment resellers where I might find an NL elicited a chuckle a few times

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Yes but don’t lump nextgen with FP. Next gen is the “intermediate” solution by using reduction gear belt to run a Kubota engine (industrial, same model in 5.5KW model as refrigeration truck compressor motors by the 1000s worldwide) at 2800 RPM not 3600.
So Nextgen (which I have) is perfect for lower weight intermission use but much more robust than FP IMHO. No need for NL unless you really plan to run 24-7 or close. Mine is awesome and apart from a capacitor replacement every 5-7 years ($50 part, 10 min of time) pretty much no issues

If I couldn't fit in a real heavy duty genset or if I just didn't want the weight, Nexgen is what I would choose. Actually I like the smaller one with the derated generator head. Another similar set is the Phaser.


What makes these great is not only the lower speed and better engines, but the extreme simplicity, a very desirable quality in a marine genset. You do not want to take to sea a generator which is highly stressed and highly complex and which requires trained service techs to fix. Genset problems are high on the list of things which spoil long cruises, so I think this is really important.

[transmitterdan]

As a contrarian, I would say there are options beyond a generator. It depends on the usage of power. I still cringe when thinking about running air conditioning all night without a genset. But for almost all other power usages a combination of solar, heavy duty DC generator/alternator and big inverters is attractive. Parallel inverters can provide 5kW easily and offers redundancy if one fails. Lithium battery banks that are divided for redundancy make such a package half the weight of a genset. And you can distribute that weight more evenly.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

As a contrarian, I would say there are options beyond a generator. It depends on the usage of power. I still cringe when thinking about running air conditioning all night without a genset. But for almost all other power usages a combination of solar, heavy duty DC generator/alternator and big inverters is attractive. Parallel inverters can provide 5kW easily and offers redundancy if one fails. Lithium battery banks that are divided for redundancy make such a package half the weight of a genset. And you can distribute that weight more evenly.

Why contrarian? You speak the truth and no one would deny it I think.


But batteries are not a substitute for generating capacity if you are long off the grid. You have to produce -- one way or another -- the power you consume, however good your storage is. If you have enough solar, backed up with a school bus alternator on the main, then you don't really need a generator. Provided you don't have air conditioning and intend to run it off the dock.


But there is a limit to how much solar you can put on a boat intended to go upwind. So for some of us, a good generator is a Godsend.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

As a contrarian, I would say there are options beyond a generator. It depends on the usage of power. I still cringe when thinking about running air conditioning all night without a genset. But for almost all other power usages a combination of solar, heavy duty DC generator/alternator and big inverters is attractive. Parallel inverters can provide 5kW easily and offers redundancy if one fails. Lithium battery banks that are divided for redundancy make such a package half the weight of a genset. And you can distribute that weight more evenly.

A/C is the dividing line. If you can live without it, genset is optional and solar/alternator options are viable. It's possible to run A/C on inverter and battery, but generally not practical to replace the power back into the battery bank. Depends on your means, desire, and cruising grounds.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

A/C is the dividing line. If you can live without it, genset is optional and solar/alternator options are viable. It's possible to run A/C on inverter and battery, but generally not practical to replace the power back into the battery bank. Depends on your means, desire, and cruising grounds.

I wouldn't really agree with that. With a large solar array and lithium batts, you can do anything via the inverter.


On my boat, I have an alternator which can produce 2.5kW continuously. I run washer/dryer, electric cooking, whatever off the inverter, supplied by the alternator, even without lithium batteries.


With a modern charger/inverter, which smoothly converts AC to DC and DC to AC, the form of the power really doesn't have much significance. There is no reason to have an AC generator except that they are common and available. A DC generator would be just fine too, and with the advantage that there is no need to synch so it can be variable speed.