Phasor or Northern Lights (~6kW)

[JayH]

Beta also makes 1800RPM gensets with Kubota blocks.

[scherzoja]

I saw Beta generators, but they are too long. I'm restricted by the locker opening size of 28.5 long x 16.75 wide

[Dave852]

I have had good experience with Phasor. I like being able to speak directly with the owner.
Like the fact that I can grab both 240v and 120v of the end without overloading one phase.

[eemahoney]

I have been running a Phasor 6.5KW unit since 2002 in our Endeavour 42. It is mounted under the Galley Sink which is below the Center Cockpit. I added an exhaust temp thermocouple, and an oil pressure sending unit and run them via a signal converter to my NMEA2000 network. I have been very happy with it, and found the support team very responsive the few times I have needed them.

In my unit, the width restriction was due to the air intake, which I removed and routed to a remote filter and an external air inlet. I did this after the initial installation, and noted it also made the unit quieter.

I get most parts for the engine at a local Auto Parts store, they usually special order them, and it takes a day or two.

I buit my own remote start panel.

[Goodxcharly]

On parts availability for a Shibaura engine.

- Perkins Perama engines , 20 and 30 horse are shibaura.
-Volvo small diesel inboards are made by Perkins hence Shibaura engines.
- Case small tractor engines, excavators are Shibaura.
-I had the Perama 20 3 cylinder in a Catalina 270.
- I cross referenced a starter at NAPA for my Catalina and they came up with one for a Dodge colt. $35. for a rebuilt.
- Any external components are probably easy to cross reference.

[Goodxcharly]

TMI

Interesting history on Shibaura.

They use to make Yanmar tractors. Ford N tractor engines back in the 60’s which I remember were the workhorse of the local dairy farms.

More complete history below.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibaura_(company)

[Cowpoos]

Originally Posted by scherzoja

If I were to buy a generator around the 6 kW, which would be the better choice:

Phasor K3-6.5KW
Northern Lights M673L3G

They both are 3 cyl, 1800 rpm generators.
Phasor uses a Kubota engine (D1005-E4BG)
Northern Lights uses a "Lugger", which is a Shibaura E673 engine

Engine spare/replacement parts seem to be easier to source for the Phasor because it's a D1005 Kubota and I have the necessary cross-reference files for Kubota engines.

I did a search for spare/replacement parts for the Shibaura E673 and the results were hit-and-miss. Most sites advertising "northern lights" parts seemed grossly overpriced (i.e. > $100 for a fuel injector) vs ~$30 for kubota.

Is there a difference in the generator head or the electronics that manage the generated electricity?

From their sales literature:

NL: "...uses reliable relays instead of an unrepairable printed circuit board...."
Phasor: "Single Series Circuit Control System with No Printed Circuit Boards"

I don't know the significance of those statements, but I presume those are positive features. Are they the same? Is one better than the other?


The price difference seems to be between $2000 and $3000

The Shibaura E673 is actually one of the most prolifically produced small diesel engines made. Not only is it in Northern lights gensets, you will know it as a Volvo MD2030, Perkins M30, Perkins KD103.10, its in ford 1210 tractors, New Holland 14??, Some CASE skid steer loaders, Bobcats, Hustler lawn mowers, Caterpillar 3003 used in mini excavators and skid steer loaders, they are also found prolifically around the world running refrigerated shipping containers, Bus powerbandnaircon systems, Shibauras own tractors and lawn care equipment. Parts are very cheap and available any where in the world. parts4engines.com has fair price parts for most parts.

[Goodxcharly]

More thoughts on the Kubota/Shibaura discussion. I have owned both Perkins Perama 20 and universal 35 and I can’t really say I liked one over the other. Both dependable. Though I do like how Perkins incorporated the heat exchanger and the exhaust manifold togetherinto 1 casting. Less peripheral components hanging off the engine. Universal uses a separate tube/coils that mounts on back of the engine which works though doesn’t seem quite as solid. No zincs on the Perkins either and doesn’t seem to have made any difference with corrosion.

So you might have a look at how the heat exchangers are set up on the generators.

[mvweebles]

I have a Northern Lights 6kw I bought new 3 years ago but only recently installed (long story - if you ever need work in Ensenada, do NOT use Niza Marine/Mario Herrera). Voltage regulator was DOA on startup. Parts are still under warranty but NL isn't keen to provide a replacement. Their position is they test before it leaves the factory therefore if it's broken, not their fault. If I want to disprove them, I can bring the boat to a NL Service Center at my expense. I'm 80 nms from the nearest service center.

My takeaway is NL makes a good generator. But if warranty is important to you, purchase from a NL Setvice Center and have them install it (I purchased from a NL dealer, but not a service center - my generator was professionally installed in Mexico). If you're a DIY type or using non-NL service to install, warranty may be close to worthless. May want to consider a more DIY friendly company. NexGen comes to mind but I'm sure there are others.

[scherzoja]

Hey y'all,

Thanks for the information and answers to my question. I'm still mulling this over and the feedback in very helpful. I intend to install the generator myself, so I'll take a very close look at the Phasor and NL warranty fine print. Warranties are comforting, but the reality I have observed is that there are many loopholes that companies have written into their warranties that make the warranty effectively useless. It's nice to have a warranty, but if it requires the part to be shipped back to a service center at my expense before a new one is sent, that's not all that helpful. That's why I am looking for a generator that is designed with simplicity in mind and those that have history of trouble-free operation. It's also why I keep going back to Kubota.

I realize that I will be trouble-shooting and fixing it myself. My bias against Lugger/Shibaura might disappear once I find the cross-reference files for the non-marinized parts. I understand from some of your responses that many, many brands used the Shibaura engine, but until I obtain or figure out how to make a cross-reference file, Lugger is 2nd on the list.

I am biased because I have a 4cyl kubota (Universal 5444) as the main engine and did a complete teardown and overhaul, using Kubota parts. During the process, I found out how to cross-reference the parts. Kubota has an online exploded parts catalog and I found the tractor model that used the V1902 engine (R400 Loader). One that relationship was discovered, everything was easy.

There was nothing wrong with the engine, but the boat had no records of engine maintenance and I needed to know the condition of the engine (1982 boat with 2000 hrs on meter). Turned out that there was nothing wrong with the engine, except external rust on areas where paint had fallen off. The cross-reference is not just for repair, it's for spares. I just can't open my wallet for an injector with a price tag of over $100 when I could get it, if I know where, for $50.

The other aspect and what causes a delay in my decision is the question about LiFePo batteries and my realistic 12v and 120v demands. I've got too much on my plate at the moment to move from FLA to LiFePo. Once I wrap my head around that change, I might not even need a 6 kW AC generator. That ball is on a completely different field and right now, I don't have the mental bandwidth to pass through that gate.


Thank you again for your advice and more is always welcome because If I decide to by one of these gensets, I want to have all the research and questions behind me.

Have a good week.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by scherzoja

Hey y'all,



Thanks for the information and answers to my question. I'm still mulling this over and the feedback in very helpful. I intend to install the generator myself, so I'll take a very close look at the Phasor and NL warranty fine print. Warranties are comforting, but the reality I have observed is that there are many loopholes that companies have written into their warranties that make the warranty effectively useless. It's nice to have a warranty, but if it requires the part to be shipped back to a service center at my expense before a new one is sent, that's not all that helpful. That's why I am looking for a generator that is designed with simplicity in mind and those that have history of trouble-free operation. It's also why I keep going back to Kubota.



I realize that I will be trouble-shooting and fixing it myself. My bias against Lugger/Shibaura might disappear once I find the cross-reference files for the non-marinized parts. I understand from some of your responses that many, many brands used the Shibaura engine, but until I obtain or figure out how to make a cross-reference file, Lugger is 2nd on the list.



I am biased because I have a 4cyl kubota (Universal 5444) as the main engine and did a complete teardown and overhaul, using Kubota parts. During the process, I found out how to cross-reference the parts. Kubota has an online exploded parts catalog and I found the tractor model that used the V1902 engine (R400 Loader). One that relationship was discovered, everything was easy.



There was nothing wrong with the engine, but the boat had no records of engine maintenance and I needed to know the condition of the engine (1982 boat with 2000 hrs on meter). Turned out that there was nothing wrong with the engine, except external rust on areas where paint had fallen off. The cross-reference is not just for repair, it's for spares. I just can't open my wallet for an injector with a price tag of over $100 when I could get it, if I know where, for $50.



The other aspect and what causes a delay in my decision is the question about LiFePo batteries and my realistic 12v and 120v demands. I've got too much on my plate at the moment to move from FLA to LiFePo. Once I wrap my head around that change, I might not even need a 6 kW AC generator. That ball is on a completely different field and right now, I don't have the mental bandwidth to pass through that gate.





Thank you again for your advice and more is always welcome because If I decide to by one of these gensets, I want to have all the research and questions behind me.



Have a good week.

NLs warranty is advertised as 1 + 4 year - one year parts and labor, then parts alone. I found this internal training doc via a Google search. As you can see, filing a warranty claim - even for parts - requires a NL Service Technician. I have struggled with NL to replace a DOA voltage regulator that was installed by a qualified marine electrician, just not a certified NL Service Tech. DIY would be hopeless.

https://www.northern-lights.co...war...0procedure.pdf

I will say that the engine itself is probably the most reliable part of a generator (power head, marinization, and controls being the other component groups). If you move forward, may want to compare the other groups - price of the AVR (auto voltage regulator), and exhaust elbow and heat exchanger (marinization). These are likely the most common failure items within a few thousand hours of running.

[ngmayo]

I lived aboard a boat with a 6KW NL for half a decade in which I replaced the elbow per a Maryland boat yards recommendation. My primary boat I've been running in a professional capacity the last 2 winters had a phasor. Both amazing Diesel-generators (DG). HUGE design flaw per my opinion in the NL circa 2010 design is if 12V power is lost the engine dies. I haven't tested with the phasor. I hope it stays running in a loss of 12V event.

Design flaw in the phasor is the impellor fail without indication i.e. it overheats and the impellor has no show sign of wear. Essentially the pump spins the inner ring and the ring detaches from the rest of the component. Could be a good thing I guess. the blades don't go into the heat exchanger. It just unique to pull the plate and see no damage. I made the mistake of thinking the impeller was fine for a bit as I scratched my head with a bit more trouble shooting. Also the impellor plate is a REAL hassle on the phasor without a REAL shorty drive on the phasor.

Both are fine DGs.