Portable generator setup with aircon and inverter

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by skipmac

This got my attention. Thought about upgrading from my Honda but looked at the spec. Yamaha 75 lbs vs 48 lbs for my Honda. Since I store mine and lug it up to the stern when I want to use it that extra weight is a bit daunting.

It is heavy, no doubt. But we never move it, so not a problem for us.

[Allied39]

I hope you see the obvious pattern here.

The folks that say you cant and that it's dangerous do not do what you propose.

The folks that say you can, do do it and, amazingly (not), are not dead, you know this by the fact that they are posting usable information based on knowledge instead of opinion based on fear.

Just thought I would point out the obvious.

Portable gens are very useful and can be used safely when the synapses in ones head communicate with each other. A bit like a screwdriver.....deadly when inserted deeply into ones ear, pretty darn usefull the rest of the time.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Allied39

I hope you see the obvious pattern here.

The folks that say you cant and that it's dangerous do not do what you propose.

The folks that say you can, do do it and, amazingly (not), are not dead, you know this by the fact that they are posting usable information based on knowledge instead of opinion based on fear.

Just thought I would point out the obvious.

Portable gens are very useful and can be used safely when the synapses in ones head communicate with each other. A bit like a screwdriver.....deadly when inserted deeply into ones ear, pretty darn usefull the rest of the time.

100%
Running one of these on deck next to an open window , on the foredeck next to a hatch or in the cockpit is just plain dumb. A little IQ goes a long way.

[boatpoker]

Whadaya think o' this one
When these guys rafted off the wall we were on ... we moved

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

We can run our 16,000btu a/c from our small 2400Watt Yamaha generator which is significantly quiter than the Honda.
No soft start, no problem.

That's the generator we have and it's basically at it's limit getting the compressor to kick over (once started, it's perfectly happy with the load). If we don't turn everything else off or sometimes just the weather, it may overload and we have to turn it off and restart it before it will start the aircon.

Of course we bought it back in 2007 when the choices for inverter generators was red or blue (honda or yamaha).

Today, I would be looking at other brands. Champion seems to be well reviewed and is only 50-60% of the price of the equivalent honda. We have our eyes on the Champion Dual Fuel 4500w unit for about $900. Dual fuel eliminates carb gumming up issues and 4500w means it won't struggle to get the compressor to kick over.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Yup ! My Yamaha 2400 pumps out 20amps and can handle startup surge.

Based on your experience and the spec sheet it seems like the Yamaha will handle a much larger surge than the Honda. Even running the Honda through my Victron 2000W inverter that also handles a bit of a surge I could not reliably start my Webasto 16k BTU air con.

Specs on the Webasto give a locked rotor amp draw of around 60 amps which seems abnormally high. Wonder if that is a design shortcoming on that unit. The high draw is of course only for fraction of a second when the compressor/motor kicks in but was still enough to overload my system. Even adding a large, external starting capacitor wouldn't give reliable function. Had to go with the Easy Start and problem solved.

[team karst]

My honda 2200 starts our 12k BTU Domitec without fuss, but the ECON mode is off. After the a/c starts, it also powers a 40Amp batter charger. I even turned on the 5 gallon water heater, but that does red line the unit. My honda is a later version with bluetooth, so you can see Watts in real time; plus it tracks oil changes, etc.

[Rumrace]

My Gen and air are built in. The air isn’t working right, but to be honest might be a week I miss it. I suspect it needs a new compressor.

[Shrew]

I've used the portable Honda 2000 to run a 5K BTU AC on various boats for 15 years with no issues. I need a 'soft start' to have it run my 16K BTU. I've never tried to run both together.

With a portable generator, you need to look at the total draw of all devices and shut off various devices until the draw is below the threshold (breaker) on the generator itself.

For instance, I can't run my water heater and AC at the same time. If the battery charger is pulling a heavy load, such as in the first 1-2 hours, I can't run either my water heater or AC.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

My Gen and air are built in. The air isn’t working right, but to be honest might be a week I miss it. I suspect it needs a new compressor.

Wouldn't mind at all having a built in generator but not really a good space on the boat. I could jam one in in a couple of spots but would screw up access to something else or to the generator itself.

If I needed it more I would make the sacrifice of the space but really only once or twice a year do I want air con when I'm not tied to a dock so deal with the portable.

Might be worth checking your air con before giving up hope. My last system quit but was just a problem with the external control box that coordinated the cooling water pump with the air con startup.

[Rumrace]

THe location for your generator is perfect tbh. It’s a perfect place for the boat maker to have put one.
The air blows it’s just not that cool. The generator is fine. Had the onan guy hanging like a bat tweak it.

[pesarsten]

I installed a Velaire 16K btu VSD unit last summer. It is inverter technology with variable speed drive. My EU2000 runs it easily, and I can dial the output back to 4000 btu/hr
and potentially run it off my 1500 watt inverter.

well worth the extra cost for many reasons

[Julius1977]

This is actually great information all together. Off course you have the safety issues about a portable genset vs build-in genny's. So for me its not only about the money (15k costs) but also refitting is a big job on my boat, they need to remove one of the main engines to fit it in and refit the motor hatch to make it bigger. So if you see all this work and you know that you will have shore power 9 out of 10 times, the investment is just too big.


So I understand that you most likely can run at least one aircon pump on a portable one. I also understand that Honda is the better but also the more expensive option and that a much cheaper one is most likely to do the job too with a little more noise. It is unclear yet if the booster option with a good inverter charger will help to run the aircon(s). A softstarter will also help and I can always install it when the setup won't work.


The idea is that you either run aircon and shut off any other AC powered devices. Also not charging the batteries. And if you cooled down one or two cabins, you run the generator longer for charging the batteries. Or the other way around. You just need all these things for a couple of hours on the days that you are on the hook or when you have bad or insuffient shore power.


So the question remaining is: how much amps will the dometic aircon pull in my boat? The total setup is 28k BTU (according to specifications). There are three units. Is one unit the 28/3 so around 9K BTU? According to the Honda 22i EU specifics it is able to deliver max 7,8 amps on 230V (EU standard). To short and together with the inverter booster option it will drain the battery right? The weight of the Honda 22i is low, 22kg. The 30i is 35kg. Can anybody tell something if a weight of about 40kg is problematic on the boat? Or also doable because you carry short distances?

[Rumrace]

I guess it depends on the boat. There is no location on my boat for a generator other than the location in the stern. A portable would not be safe down there or anywhere on board. I think a built in Onan is around 19,000 €. The air has ducting which show up inside furniture so it’s more an HAV system than an air conditioner.
You might consider one of those mini cubes and some solar/ battery upgrades.
Mounting the Gen high like boatpoker is unique to that ship design and ideal for service and safety.
A portable generator used wrong has the potential to kill a crew.
Wife prerequisite we had air. Gen was a must for me.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

A portable generator used wrong has the potential to kill a crew.
Wife prerequisite we had air. Gen was a must for me.

Not just "potential". There are a number of fatalities noted from improper use of these units on board. A simple google search will turn up many examples. In one case a fella had it running on the dock (higher than cockpit) while he worked in the cockpit on a windless day ... he died.

In all our years of cruising we have only used ours as a back up charger when at anchor for a few weeks. We've also used it in winter when the yacht club (and the rest of the area) lost power for a few days.

We've used it for a/c maybe twice although hen hot enough to need a/c we usually sleep in the cockpit. Since we installed 630Watts of solar on the pilot house 4 yrs ago we have not used the generator. We run a tank of fuel through it 2-3 x's per year just to make sure it's ok.

Like everything else it life a little forethought and care goes a long way.