Red and Green All-Around Lights

[SkiprJohn]

On the Tricolor - My book says under 12 meter not 20 meter.
JohnL

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by David M

Alan,
I dont think a lot of yachties understand the potential downside of using a strobe.

David

Ahh... I see now why I agree with David on all this stuff. He's obviously a trained professional seaman, rather than a yachtie.

Again, I agree. A strobe sends the wrong message, for sure in that case.

[David M]

Sullivan,
I'm a soon to be "Yachtie" and will be quite proud of the title.

It's funny about the word "yachtie". Some see it as a derogatory term. I never have. I need to make a new thread about this.

[cagney]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

On the Tricolor - My book says under 12 meter not 20 meter.
JohnL

Old book! I think this changed around 1983 or so!

[Alan Wheeler]

OK, thanks for the education. It made me go back to my rule book. I see though, that the all round is mast head only, sailboat only, and must still carry the single Red/Green side lights. The book also describes this as rare.
I am often navigating the sound at night and it can feel so closed in on very dark nights. Coming across another vessel, especially the large mussel barges in the black of night, you really want to be sure what side you are on and I like them to know my intentions early as well as know there's.

[44'cruisingcat]

I don't see why red over green would be preferable to a masthead tricolour. As long as they are visible for the same distances.

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I don't see why red over green would be preferable to a masthead tricolour. As long as they are visible for the same distances.

Agreed. In fact, IMO, the masthead tri-color has some definite advantages, one of which is what Wheels points out about not only seeing the vessel, but seeing its heading.

[cooper]

About the 1 meter separation in the previous posts, I would not worry too much about it, just be sure to have some separation...the more the better. Nobody is going to be out on the ocean writing "fix-it" tickets.

I just checked a number of Australian license handbooks and there is no mention of seperation. Whilst I am sure that you are correct, the fact is that what is far more important is the actual use and benifits of the lights. I have only seen ONE other boat running these lights, and that was a 30 meter square rigger. It did not have separation of its its red over green.

See the point has been missed again........the red over green allows you to run BOTH deck lights and mast head. You cannot do this with a tri colour. The DECK lights give you direction, the MAST HEAD tells you its a sailing boat.
Running tri only close to port means that they get lost against shore lights,
The only alternative is to have tri and deck switched through a never together toggle.....but why for the love of mother would you do that when you can run BOTH.....

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by cooper

I just checked a number of Australian license handbooks and there is no mention of seperation. Whilst I am sure that you are correct, the fact is that what is far more important is the actual use and benifits of the lights. I have only seen ONE other boat running these lights, and that was a 30 meter square rigger. It did not have separation of its its red over green.

See the point has been missed again........the red over green allows you to run BOTH deck lights and mast head. You cannot do this with a tri colour. The DECK lights give you direction, the MAST HEAD tells you its a sailing boat.
Running tri only close to port means that they get lost against shore lights,
The only alternative is to have tri and deck switched through a never together toggle.....but why for the love of mother would you do that when you can run BOTH.....

Sorry... my bad. I learned last night why they call Ft Lauderdale ,"Ft Liquordale." Ughh.....

[cooper]

....i will add it to my "must visit list" : )....

[scotte]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I don't see why red over green would be preferable to a masthead tricolour. As long as they are visible for the same distances.

Only reason I can think of would be as Cooper said - because it allows you to run vessel nav lights at the same time (in fact you have to), where a masthead tricolor cannot be used with hull nav lights. There are advantages to having lights down at boat/eye level in terms of being seen by other boats.

[Alan Wheeler]

About the 1 meter separation in the previous posts, I would not worry too much about it, just be sure to have some separation...the more the better. Nobody is going to be out on the ocean writing "fix-it" tickets.

The seperation is in the verticle, not horizontal. So it would simply mean a mast extension, which seeing as this is for sail only, it seems a little combersome to fit a light another metre above the mast head and hence why it is rare to see I would expect.
It looks like the R/G has to be used in conjunction with the normal lower level navlights of R + G, so another vessel will still be able to tell heading. R/G can not be used when the motor is running. A white light at the mast head must be on when engine running.

Like Scotte says...

To be sure everyone understands, the "red over green" combination MUST be used WITH deck level lights. There are good reasons for using the combination. From a large ship's bridge in a crowed harbor, the deck level lights can be MORE visable than a masthead light because from the height of the bridge they appear against the background of the dark water, instead of against the city lights. When at sea, the higher level lights have the advantage being above the swells. The combination of deck and "red over green" solves both problems.

One of the reasons we haven't seen the "Red over green" combination is that for most sailboats, it has just taken more power than availalbe. With the advent of LED lights, I think this will be more likely to be seen. A combination radio antenna and light pole could easily give the required one meter seperation without bizarre rig modifications, if sombody chose to make and sell one.

There are very good reasons for NOT combining a tricolor and deck lights, other than it is "against the rules". From various angles as I approached such a boat I would see would see two red lights, one over the other, which is the light combination for a vessel not under command and not underway. Is that what you want me to think you are???

I might see two white lights, one above the other, which is the combination I would expect to see from directly in front of a vessel over 50 meters, but where are the side lights? Which way should I turn? A great source of confusion.

Or maybe you see two green lights... a sure sign of an ignorant skipper.

The rules aren't arbitrary. The make sense, if we chose to learn and understand them.

Bill

[Alan Wheeler]

Makes perfect sense. Excellent Bill. Thanks.

[jrd22]

Thanks for all the discussion, and opinions. As has been discussed these are for increased visibility when I'm sailing at night, red and green up top and able to use the deck nav lights as well. What I am really hoping to find is a ready made LED array, but have had no luck finding anything. The mast is off while we are doing a major refit so now is the time to put this together(working on the boat all day, potting holes in the deck, that's why it took so long to get back here). It sounds like I will have to make my own out of two all around lights, unless someone can direct me to a ready made unit. I wish the boat builders would start equippping new boats with these, then they would be more recognised as "sailboat" and more available. Even though most "yachties" may not know what they represent, all "Masters" have been tested on them so they will at least know that it is something different and look it up.

Thanks for all the responses, John