Replace electrical panel

[Tmacmi]

I have to replace my electrical panel because several of the fuse carriers are stuck and have blown fuses in them. At a minimum I have to remove it and perhaps fix the carriers.

I tried to remove it last year but the wires do not have much remaining scope to pull the panel out more than 2".

I am presuming this is a process of carefully cutting off the wires from the back of the panel, labeling them and then reinstalling onto the repaired or a new panel....connecting the original groups of wires to a new lead as necessary.

One item of note is you will see that this panel includes the fuel gauge. Where would you put this? I have a very small "dashboard" that isn't in a place that is easily viewed.

Another item is the nav lights are not just on and off. Center is off, left is sailing, right is power. All the panels I have seen are just binary, on or off. I suppose I could set it up as a binary sail, and then add a binary for the steaming light.

Thanks for any input you can provide.

[Singularity]

If you're otherwise content with the number and arrangement of circuits on the panel, I'd provide moral support to just undertake the tedious task of replacing elements one-by-one in the current panel.

On the other hand, consider the condition of your wiring in general. It's a can of worms deal, but if you find that you've got a lot of wiring that ought to be replaced, this is more work overall, but will make installing a new panel (or fixing the old) easier, where the whole wire/panel system should be good for the next 2-3 decades.

FWIW I like your light setup as is.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by Tmacmi

I have to replace my electrical panel because several of the fuse carriers are stuck and have blown fuses in them. At a minimum I have to remove it and perhaps fix the carriers.

I tried to remove it last year but the wires do not have much remaining scope to pull the panel out more than 2".

I am presuming this is a process of carefully cutting off the wires from the back of the panel, labeling them and then reinstalling onto the repaired or a new panel....connecting the original groups of wires to a new lead as necessary.

Unfortunately that is pretty much it ... be fastidious about the labelling. And double check the labels are correct before hooking things back up. When connecting it back up, a good option if you have the space is to install a terminal strip behind the panel, with the old wires connected to the terminal strip, then add new wires between the terminal strip and the panel.

One item of note is you will see that this panel includes the fuel gauge. Where would you put this? I have a very small "dashboard" that isn't in a place that is easily viewed.

If you're not replacing the whole panel, I'd leave it exactly where it is. I only look at my fuel gauge once a day, then if necessary top up the tank so that there's plenty of fuel in it for the next day. I would however get a better voltmeter, since you will be mostly interested in the range between 12 and 13 volts.

Another item is the nav lights are not just on and off. Center is off, left is sailing, right is power. All the panels I have seen are just binary, on or off. I suppose I could set it up as a binary sail, and then add a binary for the steaming light.

Nothing wrong with this configuration. The switch will be a DPDT switch with the bow and stern lights hooked up to both the left and right side of one circuit on the switch, and the steaming light hooked up to just one side of the other circuit. If you replace the panel to one with breakers, the breakers will only switch one circuit each, so you need two (or one breaker and a switch after the breaker).

Thanks for any input you can provide.

And remember to keep the DC wires separated from the AC wires as much as possible ... if there's any problems back there in the future you don't want any crossover between the two.

[Sailing Ohm]

Originally Posted by Singularity

If you're otherwise content with the number and arrangement of circuits on the panel, I'd provide moral support to just undertake the tedious task of replacing elements one-by-one in the current panel.

On the other hand, consider the condition of your wiring in general. It's a can of worms deal, but if you find that you've got a lot of wiring that ought to be replaced, this is more work overall, but will make installing a new panel (or fixing the old) easier, where the whole wire/panel system should be good for the next 2-3 decades.

FWIW I like your light setup as is.

Good advice here.
I think it is still in your best interest to rewire everything as it sounds like all of your wires are maxed out length wise. ( am easy solution is to clip them back, add disconnects and additional lengths of wire...not ideal I know...). If you are going to get involved in a tedious project like this I’d say better to just get it done all at once.

I highly recommend taking pictures beforehand and labeling as much as you can. (A small piece of tape with numbers that correspond a to a note with the name of the device. Much better than trying to write ‘ refrigerator’ on small Piece of tape).

I really like the newer panels these days. I’ve recommended a few of my customers (especially with very old/suspect panels) to go ahead and purchase a new panel because they are simpler and safer.
I know they aren’t cheap so that is definitely a factor. But if you need more breakers then not much you can do.
Blue seas panels are nicely built and have built in negatives and grounds which I’ve found saves room.
Here’s one I’m currently working on. First photo is original panel wiring and second is after a new blue sea panel was installed. A lot simpler and we ended adding a few extra devices so more wire than before.

Also don’t be afraid to relocate things if need be unless your the person who wants things as original as possible. If that’s the case you’ll have to accept certain limitations.

This current customer I’m Working with had a combined Ac/DC panel, much like you have, and I ended up installing a new AC panel under the Nav table to help keep things organized best I could.
Photos are of a work still in progress

Cleaning up electrical, especially if it’s an older boat with multiple owners over its life) is definitely a tedious task but well worth it and you might find something you’ll be glad you fixed. Eg my current project had an ac positive wire and a DC positive wired to the same breaker along with the ac negative actually wired to a DC negative bus bar...🤦

[John Plyler]

From the looks of your pictures, it looks pretty good to me! I would just replace the bad breaker and not cut the wiring unless it is damaged.

[mvweebles]

Sounds like you're at the end of your leash to pull back the panel. But it does look workable. Your call

If you decide to do something, consider installing a back plane behind the panel. In short, a duplicate of your breaker panel but with 2 pole bus bar to each position instead of breakers. Cut your existing wires and mount to the appropriate bus bar terminal. The make a short wiring harness from the back plane to the breakers. You can leave as much extra length as you'd like and bundle it in a single pigtail to hinge the breaker panel. Your choice. Very clean and easily manage install.

Back plane couple be custom made by a panel builder for a few hundred bucks, including labeling and shunt as shown in lower part of the attached picture.

Peter

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Sounds like you're at the end of your leash to pull back the panel. But it does look workable. Your call

If you decide to do something, consider installing a back plane behind the panel. In short, a duplicate of your breaker panel but with 2 pole bus bar to each position instead of breakers. Cut your existing wires and mount to the appropriate bus bar terminal. The make a short wiring harness from the back plane to the breakers. You can leave as much extra length as you'd like and bundle it in a single pigtail to hinge the breaker panel. Your choice. Very clean and easily manage install.

Back plane couple be custom made by a panel builder for a few hundred bucks, including labeling and shunt as shown in lower part of the attached picture.

Peter Attachment 226822

Perfect example of what you should do. You can salvage your existing panel if you can't afford a new one by creating a wire harness from each breaker to a terminal block located a bit farther away since your pretty tight from your devices.

I'd follow this route regardless of if you rebuild your existing your panel or put in a new one. It makes things MUCH cleaner and much easier to manage down the road. I have a post regarding my on-going wiring project. I opted to go with a new DC panel and in turn pull all new wiring throughout the boat due to original wiring(1980) being pulled through the bilge and a questionable amount of wiring that is unknown in termination.

My project isn't perfect, its not done, there has been some great feedback on here and theres things I know are wrong that will get replaced(work slows down progress quite a bit).

One thing I will point out that mvweebles mentioned is that the shunt should be within 12" of the battery leads. For me, placing the shut where the DC panel is located is not within that distance.

[Tmacmi]

I've had some good success (touch wood)

I was able to get all the wires off the panel without cutting them. They are all spade terminals and came off relatively easily.

I'm also very happy to report that I found OEM replacement fuse carriers, so I can reuse the panel.

I did discover some previous owner installations that were odd.

1) is there any rational reason why the auto pilot positive would be installed to the hot side of a fuse connection and the ground installed to the amp meter ground nut?

2) Similarly the binnacle light positive was installed to the nav light switch (makes sense), but the ground was also connected to the amp meter ground nut.

I suspect this is because they couldn't find an available ground terminal on the panel.

I have attached a photo of the ground terminal bus on the back of the panel. Its a rat's nest. I found 17 ground wires connected to it.

Here's my game plan.

I'm going to set up a remote negative bus. It will only be 24 inches from the existing panel. I have a few questions.

1) I think I have identified 2 grounds in the existing mess that runs to the ground on the transmission housing (that is also where the battery grounds are). Would it be common to have 2?

2) Does there need to be a ground wire from the panel to the new remote bus.

3) I can undo the harness and directly wire about half of the grounds to the new bus, however because of some of the harness couplers I'll have to butt splice the other half and run them back. Do you see any problem with that?

I am also planning to run one positive bus block for each of the accessory switches.

Feedback?

[Time2Go]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Sounds like you're at the end of your leash to pull back the panel. But it does look workable. Your call

If you decide to do something, consider installing a back plane behind the panel. In short, a duplicate of your breaker panel but with 2 pole bus bar to each position instead of breakers. Cut your existing wires and mount to the appropriate bus bar terminal. The make a short wiring harness from the back plane to the breakers. You can leave as much extra length as you'd like and bundle it in a single pigtail to hinge the breaker panel. Your choice. Very clean and easily manage install.

Back plane couple be custom made by a panel builder for a few hundred bucks, including labeling and shunt as shown in lower part of the attached picture.

Peter Attachment 226822

This is exactly what we plan to do on
my friends boat.
We plan to hire pros to redo the AC circuits
with a new AC panel

Cheers
Neil

[stormalong]

Consider making yourself a custom ground buss. It is not hard or too time consuming if you are careful.

Buy silver flashed copper bar, 1/4 inch thick by 1 inch wide of the length you want. Onlinemetals.com sells this at a reasonable price. Be sure to include length to screw mount the bar where you want it and a place for a stud for a heavy wire to go back to your battery negative post or shunt. Get a tapping size drill bit for 8-32 screws and drill two rows. The tricky part is tapping the holes. Copper is soft and you need to be careful not to snap off the tap. Back it out frequently. I made a replacement buss bar just last year this way and ended up making two because I broke a tap.

I have a few buss bars in my boat that I made. I like to make what I need rather than buying something stock that is not ideal for the job.

You are lucky to be in the Great Lakes. I sailed out of Chicago for 20 years before becoming a full time cruiser. The wiring on a fresh water boat looks pristine after decades of use. Salt air attacks bare copper very quickly.