S/Y Herminia going green

[SoundOfSilence]

Hi all,

I plan to install solar panels. The goal is to have enough energy to not worry so much. I still want to start the engine every morning or as necessary to make water and warm water for showering, so this will also help.

S/Y Herminia is a Grand Soleil 52 from 1991 and is power hungry with 2x fridges, inverter, autopilot, radar, electric toilet and so on, but all LED. We are often two families onboard, total of 8 people. Sailing area is Mediterranean Spain and Balearic Islands for 6-8 weeks summer time. We never go to marinas (ridiculously expensive) and always anchor out.

So, here is the plan:
I have 24V system, so I plan to have 1x170W panel on each side of the cockpit on the rail and 4x150W flexible panels on top of bimini. I plan a Victron MPPT 30A regulator for all these. I also have a separate 12V starter battery and plan to install a 50W or so separate flexible panel for this on top of the sprayhood. The 12V battery also gives power to a second bilge pump which is in auto when I am not on board. I plan to buy a Victron PWM 10A regulator for this. From top, it will look something like this:



I want to be able to check the amps the panels give so I will install four amperemeters: One for the starter battery panel, one for 2x170W panel, one for each of the 2x150W panels. Two and two panels will be connected in series to get 24V. (Didn’t find any 24V panels that fit.) I already have amperemeter and voltmeter to see the in/out and voltage for the service batteries, but nothing for the starter battery. I will therefore also install a separate voltmeter to monitor this.

I will buy and install everything myself. Price for everything, including breakers, cables etc is about 1800 euros, ordered from Amazon. Modified bimini and sprayhood not included. The batteries I have already. I am not an electrician, so it’s likely I will shortcut something, but that’s ok. My electrical drawing below is probably full of planned shortcuts, haha.

SolarPanelsHerminia.pdf

I am looking forward to all comments on this project and am prepared to do the necessary adjustments as I go.

So, what do you all think about this? I am not sure how to connect the voltmeter and the amperemeters so if somebody could have a look it would be great!

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by SoundOfSilence

Hi all,

I plan to install solar panels. The goal is to have enough energy to not worry so much. I still want to start the engine every morning or as necessary to make water and warm water for showering, so this will also help.

S/Y Herminia is a Grand Soleil 52 from 1991 and is power hungry with 2x fridges, inverter, autopilot, radar, electric toilet and so on, but all LED. We are often two families onboard, total of 8 people. Sailing area is Mediterranean Spain and Balearic Islands for 6-8 weeks summer time. We never go to marinas (ridiculously expensive) and always anchor out.

So, here is the plan:
I have 24V system, so I plan to have 1x170W panel on each side of the cockpit on the rail and 4x150W flexible panels on top of bimini. I plan a Victron MPPT 30A regulator for all these. I also have a separate 12V starter battery and plan to install a 50W or so separate flexible panel for this on top of the sprayhood. The 12V battery also gives power to a second bilge pump which is in auto when I am not on board. I plan to buy a Victron PWM 10A regulator for this. From top, it will look something like this:

Attachment 174530

I want to be able to check the amps the panels give so I will install four amperemeters: One for the starter battery panel, one for 2x170W panel, one for each of the 2x150W panels. Two and two panels will be connected in series to get 24V. (Didn’t find any 24V panels that fit.) I already have amperemeter and voltmeter to see the in/out and voltage for the service batteries, but nothing for the starter battery. I will therefore also install a separate voltmeter to monitor this.

I will buy and install everything myself. Price for everything, including breakers, cables etc is about 1800 euros, ordered from Amazon. Modified bimini and sprayhood not included. The batteries I have already. I am not an electrician, so it’s likely I will shortcut something, but that’s ok. My electrical drawing below is probably full of planned shortcuts, haha.

Attachment 174531

I am looking forward to all comments on this project and am prepared to do the necessary adjustments as I go.

So, what do you all think about this? I am not sure how to connect the voltmeter and the amperemeters so if somebody could have a look it would be great!

Some quick thoughts.

1. Using a Victron MPPT controller, you do NOT want '12v' or '24v' panels, you want ones with a nominal voltage that is 40-50v+ MPPT controllers just don't work with voltages that low and they are much much happier with higher V, lower A pannels.

2. a Victron BlueSolar or SmartSolar MPPT controller has bluetooth, and you can monitor it from a phone very easily. This will give you the output from the solar panels.

3. Most likely you want to connect all the panels in Parallel, and feed the MPPT as a set. There is really no need to put current monitors on each 'arm' of the solar system as you can't do anything about anyway. If you are concerned about shading, and want to control them seperatly, you are better off with multiple MPPT controllers.

Also Parallel connection gives you the best result in event of partial shading of 1 or more panels.

4. For general current / SOC monitoring of the house bank, and loads, look at the Victron BMV-712 battery monitor. This is a smart monitor with current shunt, and a display with a whole load of usefull information, along with a Bluetooth so you get all the Info on your phone. The 'Shunt' position is critical to proper monitoring. See manual, but in a nutshell, it goes on the Negative wire out of your battery bank.

Whilst my system is bigger, I've gone through a bunch of this recently, and would be happy to discuss further, PM me. (My System is 6 x 360 w, 69volt panels, feeding 2x Victron 100/150 controllers, a BMV-712, GX display and a 5kva Quattro).


Regards

Mark.

[KTP]

Why limit the rail panels to just one on each side of the cockpit? It looks like you could have up to four on each side of the boat, at least while at anchor.

[SoundOfSilence]

Mark, I have given your interesting points some thoughts:
1. Good point! I have checked the spec of the two 170W panels and they have 36 cells each which are rated to 18,3V and 9.3 amps max. In series it will be 36,6V and 9.3 amps, which is not so far away from what you recommend.
2. Bluetooth: Yes, I noticed this as well. However, I prefer to have the outputs on the bulkhead so I can have a quick check from time to time. Or just for fun . Amperemeters are very cheap, only 4 euros on Amazon and the Voltmeter only 2.
3. To get high enough voltage I need to connect at least two and two in series. After the shunts, they are connected in parallel like you suggest. I agree it would be better to have a separate MPPT for each arm, but I was thinking about space as well, so for now I only have one MPPT. I will test this setup first, but will certainly have in mind that separate MPPT might be a better solution in an eventual future upgrade.
4. I agree the BMV-712 looks like a neat little thing, but I wanted to see the separate amps for the panels, so I will go with this solution for now. I also looked at the GX display like you have and it is indeed a tempting device which will look great on every chart table. But for now, I will just have to go for the cheap amperemeters.

That is a really impressive solar array you have installed. How many amps does it produce midday summertime?

[SoundOfSilence]

KTP: I hope to produce enough power with the planned array, but should that not be the case, I guess I could mount some more on the rail. But not too many and not midships as the sea can easily break them when heeling. Actually, I am not convinced that the rail mount is a good place at all because of the risk of the sea damaging them, or damage both the panels and the rail. I guess I will find out...

[KTP]

Oh I was thinking more of just hooking them on when at anchor, not while underway in heavy seas. I would make it where they just clip on to the lifelines and plug in to connectors that you have perma wired at the stanchions. Should be about a 5 min operation to deploy all 8 panels (four on each side). If you use the thin flexible panels with a dual wall 8mm polycarb backing, you can stow all eight panels in a compartment that is about 3 inches thick and four feet long.

[SoundOfSilence]

Yes, it is definitely a good idea that they can be dismounted should the weather pick up or better before an ocean crossing. I need to look further into how this can best be done.

I have now ordered the two 170W panels and the Victron MPPT and some cables and accessories. These panels are normal, not flexible. As I don't have time to mount anything before the summer vacation, I will just have them loose on deck while at anchor to test them. And then I will use the winter period for investigation and to buy the rest of the stuff. Any ideas on how to best mount them on the rails? Are they stiff enough as they are or should I stiffen them up a bit?

[KTP]

Definitely stiffen them. Look into the twin wall polycarbonate in either 6mm or 8mm thick. It will both add rigidity to keep them from flexing in the wind and also provide some amount of airflow. I estimate it would only add a pound or two to the weight of a 100 watt panel, which is only 4 pounds.

[SoundOfSilence]

The 170W panels are 12.8kg (28 pounds) each (and not flexible). I have been investigating a bit more about how to secure them to the stanchions and found there are several ready made solutions available. All of them involves mounting aluminum cross bars which also helps with stiffening. Most of them look more or less the same (picture below from thesolarstore.com):



The 170W panel is 146 x 66,4 x 3,5 cm so it feels better to have four of the white clamps for each panel. Each clamp mounted on an aluminum cross bar to both support the clamp but also to stiffen the panel. This design makes it easy to take off the panel when necessary. The pole to keep it in upward position looks a bit unstable. I will try to find another solution for this.

[Kristian]

Hello!
Also a GS52 owner and can just give you some feedback regarding our experience after installing just 2 150W flexible panels on our Bimi.

Just fantastic...We decided to do this more as a test 2015 and we have been using the boat extensively since then with more than 6 months sailing each season.

We are also on the hook 99% of the time and make our own water etc via the (far too big genset 6,5kw Kohler)

My guess is that you will be more than satisfied with your system. We will also redo our system and then go for the maximum amount of panels we can fit on the Bimi. I think the neatest installation is via zippers, we tried "Norska knappen " installation but the fasteners are very labour intensive to install and sort of freezes up after being mounted for so many months. Good luck!

[SoundOfSilence]

I used the winter to install the first two panels, which are the two on the railing, marked as number 2 in the initial drawing. Each are 170W. The installation went well, I ordered some aluminum to strengthen the panels and also stainless steel pipes in a local shop and used hydraulic pipe clamps to attach the panels to the pipes. They are connected to a Victron 100/30 Blue Solar controller. I also installed an extra instrument panel so I can see how much these two panels charge compared to more panels planned in the future. The new instrument panel also have space to show the Voltage on the engine battery and also an eventual future wind generator. The panel is cut in steel and spray painted black. The rest of the stuff, panels, cables, shunts, volt and amp meters etc was ordered in Amazon.

During the best periods of the day, these two panels charge 9 amps maximum at 24V, although I have just tested them for short periods. I will test them more extensively during our 1 month vacation to Ibiza and Formentera starting mid July. I configured the Victron regulator with a USB connection to my laptop so they give the correct output as recommended by the battery producer (Trojan). To keep the panels at the right angle I just use some line for now, attached to the running back stays. This way it's easy to adjust the angle, but I have to take the panels down when I am sailing.


1st picture showing the panel from the side


2nd picture shows how the panels are strenghtened with aluminum and attached by using stainless steel pipes and pipe clamps.


3rd picture shows new instrument panel at chart table. 1st slot shows engine voltage. 2nd amp for 2x170W panels, 3rd slot for eventual more panels and 4th slot eventual future wind generator.


4th picture shows main instrument panel. This shows the total charge of these two panels (now 9 amps), and also eventual future panels and wind generator.


Victron controller installed under chart table


This picture shows pre-testing of shunts for showing amps for the various pars of the system


Ampermeters and shunts working well, now the 2x170W panels give 2,4 amps (late in the day)


Connection box under the chart table with ABB automatic fuses. (lock not yet mounted)

So this is it for now, it will be interesting to see how they work during the summer cruise. Next winter I plan to continue with the system and install more panels on top of the bimini. I may go for a 2nd controller for these, as suggested in earlier comments.

So, what do you think so far?

[Mogle]

Very interesting read.
I am a owner of a GS 42, anno 1990. Done lots of upgrades and improvements. My wife keeps talking about solar panels. I refuse, I find them ugly and not that effective even though most people like them.

We do more serious sailing than most couples. Since we are often on the move, I like the hydro-generator from Watt and Sea. When sailing 5-7 knots it will quickly generate 50 amp and the drag is next to nothing. Personally, I think that is a better alternative than solar panels. But you need to keep moving.

https://www.wattandsea.com/en/produc...rators/pod-600

[Mogle]

A great yacht, great article. Thanks.

I got a GS 42, same generation and designer. Had the yacht for 10 years with plenty of upgrades and refurbishment. The wife keeps asking for a solar panel. I simply refuse. I find them too ugly, and not that efficient. But I do like the thought of free energy and something that helps to charge the batteries.

We sail more than most and are often on the move. I am therefore thinking of a hydro-generator. With 5-7 knots boat speed it generates 50 amp with hardly any drag. I find this fare more attractive than a solar panel.

https://www.wattandsea.com/fr/produi...d-cruising-600

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Mogle

. When sailing 5-7 knots it will quickly generate 50 amp and the drag is next to nothing.

Now that, I'd like to see.



50 Amps at a charging voltage of say 13.3V would be 665W. According to the manufacturers published output curve on your linked page, the W&S 600 has a MAXIMUM output of 600W.



At 5 knots, the most efficient prop makes 114W (8.6A @ 13.3V) and at 7 knots, 321W (24.1A). You need a minimum of 10.5 knots to make the maximum 600W.



Note that that is with a 280mm "high drag" prop. With a lower drag prop, you need 12 knots to get there.



(Their published figures of course are converting Watts to Amps at a totally impractical nominal 12V which makes the figures look better than reality).

[Mogle]

Originally Posted by StuM

Now that, I'd like to see.
impractical nominal 12V which makes the figures look better than reality).

Thank your updating the spec.

I still believe the hydro generators from Watt and Sea, especially the new P600 is a very good alternative charging your batteries.

Your these hydro generators have been used by different long-distance racers. They would not have done that if generates a costly drag. Thanks again for updating the spec.