Shore power inlet fuse/breaker

[sailingharry]

I have a 1998 boat, well built and largely in compliance with ABYC standards. Which, of course, are constantly evolving....LOL. The shore power inlet cable is a straight run of about 15-20 feet to the breaker panel, not compliant with today's 10' max.


I am about to remove the old Freedom 10 inverter/charger, and upgrade to a Victron Multi 3K. As part of that, I'll change the wiring some -- instead of shore power going first to the panel, then to the inverter (for charge) and back to the panel (for invert), a complex mess, I'll go from inlet to inverter to panel, the way the inverter is designed to be done. This will add a device in the line, as well as doubling the run to the first breaker. I'd like to add an Over Current Device (OCD) at the inlet.


Approved choices are a fuse (small, cheap, in a hard to reach/service location), or breaker. The problem is, I can't really find a product I'd like to install!


It seems to me that this should be a very common product. Ideally, I'd like to see a 2-pole glass/ceramic round fuse holder, maybe 2"x2"x6" counting the cover. Should be fairly cheap and fit nicely, and in an ideal world will never need servicing (I can't imagine a world where I'd screw up and overload the fuse -- it would take a fault to blow it). Blue Seas seems to sell large multi-breaker panels, with expensive breakers, that takes not only a lot of dollars, but a lot of space. They sell no suitable fuse blocks, and their breaker solution is over $600 in a box nearly 8x8x4"



I know it's a boat, and everything costs more than we want. But is there a better answer?


This Buss fuse holder and 30A fuses runs under $50 total, but has no cover. I don't need water proof (it will be 99% protected from water), but I need it covered for short/electrocution reasons.
https://www.amazon.com/Fuse-Holder-2...dp/B00DK89PXW/


This Buss holder is a bit more expensive, but might not need any cover? https://www.zoro.com/eaton-bussmann-...du/i/G4092602/ -- note that it is rated "finger safe" meaning you can't touch any energized parts.



What do others use, or have seen used, as a shore power inlet OCD? I'd think a budget of around $50-100 would be the target for this.

[sailingharry]

Or these might be the ticket. I hate inline fuses, but for this application, it might be good. They are rated to 600V 30A, are submersible (so also safe for accidental contact) and fuses run around $5 each.
https://houseofelectrical.com/heb-aa...and-insulators

[smac999]

You want an elci breaker. Do not use fuses on a shore line. This is now your main shore breaker which needs to be turned on and off. While unplugging the boat ect.

Elci breakers are expensive but they are abyc required. Since you seem worried about meeting abyc.

[sailingharry]

I am not "worried" about meeting ABYC, but I like to try and meet it, and know when I'm not. LOL. Incidentally, ABYC specifically allows fuses to meet this requirement, and wants them oversized to prevent nuisance tripping (their purpose is to protect against faults, not mild overcurrent issues).



Even if this installation is a breaker, it won't be accessible. It will be mounted up inside the cockpit coaming, requiring unloading the cockpit locker to get to it. I am curious about your statement that the breaker should be turned on and off when plugging and unplugging shore power. I get turning off the pedestal, and I do -- that makes the power cord completely dead with zero risk of sparks, arcs, dropping in water, etc. What additional value is there in opening the boat-side main breaker?


I do like, and would like, the ELCI breaker. But in addition to a few hundred dollars for the breaker, it's another hundred or so for a massively oversized box to put it in -- this application calls out for a surface mount, one-device solution. I'm not entirely convinced on the return on the dollar for an ELCI input breaker (I do have GFCI on my branch circuits)


An observation on ELCI. I think I know why it's expensive -- it appears to be "marine specific." and only available from Blue Seas. A Google search finds mostly Blue Seas, with a few from vendors like Marinco and Smart Plug, who I suspect buy from Blue Seas. Does this exist in the commercial world, and what is it called?



Thanks!

[Sailmonkey]

I think you’re looking for a mini din RCD breaker

[Frankly]

Keep in mind that a circuit can be protected against overload anywhere along the circuit, short circuits and ground faults need to be protected near the source. If you are talking about 30 amps, BS makes a couple of maxi fuse holders that are protected (you would need 2). Put an ELCI/ regular 2 pole feeding the IC in a more convenient location.

Frankly

Belay the fuse recommendation, maxi only carry a 32VDC rating.

[OS2Dude]

Our 1985 Catalina 30 has an 11' beam and the panel is on the opposite side of the boat from the inlet. When we rewired the boat, we added ELCI breakers on the galley bulkhead which is just a few feet from the inlet. Easy to get to and AYBC compliant.

ELCI is expensive, but the life it saves may be your own. (Or family or friends)
Electroshock drowning is a not too uncommon occurrence.

[Mike Crothers]

On my boat the AC goes to directly to the Inverter/Charger which has a breaker and the shore power has a breaker. Why the need to run to the main breaker panel?

[boat driver]

If hardship to install a breaker within the 11' requirement, extend the length. Or move the power cord connection.
But consider this- prior to the ELCI discussion, one should have a main disconnect and a reverse polarity indication. If the invertor has this capability, then this is a mute point. But suggesting the vessel is hot when shore breaker turned on, that is asking for simple high risk trouble. The ELCI is a logical concept in the lab, but often a problem when installed on vessels, particularly older vessels.

[dadster3]

I too have a Freedom inverter/charger and could use some help diagnosing why hooking up the shore power cable has started suddenly to trip the breaker on the shore power post. The problem is definitely in the boat, and for other reasons the invert/charger is the best suspect.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, just looking for help. Those with some knowledge of what might be going on can email me at dadster3@juno.com.

Thanks

[goboatingnow]

RCBO ie ELCI this side of the pond , are cheap as chips A good one is about €30 . These have been fitted to European boats for over 2 decades now. The system is both good in the lab and on the boat. I’ve never seen them trip unintentionally.

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by dadster3

I too have a Freedom inverter/charger and could use some help diagnosing why hooking up the shore power cable has started suddenly to trip the breaker on the shore power post. The problem is definitely in the boat, and for other reasons the invert/charger is the best suspect.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, just looking for help. Those with some knowledge of what might be going on can email me at dadster3@juno.com.

Thanks

specifically on freedom units-
first is what kind of shore breaker? if new then could be deeper in boat.
the freedom does not like the new breakers found in new marinas. I think they are too sensitive.
If in one of these marinas,
-turn master for boat and all individual breakers off, then starting at the dock and moving downstream, turn the breakers on one at a time.
If an old simple high amp breaker- do same, as it could be shore connection, arcing in the hull side connector, or the invertor itself. The freedom is an older unit and is suspect, but the shore connector on boat is a first look culprit.

[Frankly]

ELCI breakers will typically trip with a downstream ground to neutral connection. IIRC the Freedom IC required the separation of input and inverter output neutrals (the output neutral is connected to ground by the inverter when in inverter mode). Might be a good place to start looking.


Frankly

[millsie]

Surely the inverter is going to be accessible . Fit circuit breaker adjacent it .
Why fit fuses where you cant change them.

[sailingharry]

The inverter will be beyond the 10' maximum.

But my biggest grumble is that there isn't a packaged solution for this universal problem -- especially when some posts indicated that the breaker itself is available in EU for $30.

I'm leaning toward the solution suggested upthread. Buy the overpriced (but cheap enough to just get it over with) breaker. Then cobble together the housing Blue Seas should sell. All in, under $200.