Single panel mounted blade fuse holder to fit a round hole

[Spot]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

I can think of two easy ways:
1. Cheapest way is to get a Blue Sea fuse block with enough fuses. Hook the switches up after the fuses.
2. Check with Digikey. I though once-upon-a-time I saw some round hole blade fuse holders. Maybe.
3. If you’re making a new panel, check with FrontPanelExpress.com. They do great work, have great customer service, and they’ll make you a custom panel with all the holes and lettering cheaper than you can do it. You’ll probably save enough money to pay for it by not using the circuit breakers.

The FPD software is interesting and the 'cost per hole' and 'cost per plate' are inexpensive/reasonable. The DXF import and STEP export work well too.

[Time2Go]

This is what I did
Paneltronics panel with all 20 15 amp breakers
and 4 20 amp breakers, panel has 4 umbilicals
to 6 position isolated circuit fuse blocks (blue sea)
Panel is backlit to see at night and has a led to indicate
circuit is energized. Panel feeds the fuse blocks
which are then appropriately fused for their circuit
Negatives and grounds go to the bus bars in the middle
You could easily do away with the panel
and go with a simple row of toggle switches.
The whole project including the panel was under
a grand, eliminate the panel and you’d be closer to 400.00
Design for the next 50 years not the last 50
Cheers
Neil

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by SieveSailor

I think breakers and fuses are both good, and each has their place. But:


1. Breakers involve moving parts which can wear or become corroded and eventually need to be replaced. A bad fuse is much easier to identify and replace than a bad breaker.


2. Fuses come in a much wider variety of denominations than breakers, making it easy to find the exact amperage you want.


3. Changing the current limitations on a circuit by changing a fuse is far preferable to me than swapping out a breaker or installing inline fuses at the fixture. (e.g. replacing your incandescent fixtures with LEDs and their ridiculously tiny wires).

Consider the option of DIN rail circuit breakers. This solution solves most of your objections, particularly the difficulty of replacing a circuit breaker in the event of failure or wanting to change the value.

Switching DC is difficult to do reliably over the long term. The arc produced tends to pit the contact surfaces gradually, increasing resistance. This problem affects both circuit breakers and switches. Swapping a circuit breaker for a switch and fuse does not really solve this issue. The key is easy replacement of the switching device, and importantly the long term availability of identically sized replacements. DIN rail breakers can be changed in only a couple of minutes. Identical breakers with standardised sizes are produced by a wide range of manufacturers. Finding replacements that fit should never be an issue.


This photo shows the panel on my new boat:

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by SieveSailor

I think breakers and fuses are both good, and each has their place. But:


1. Breakers involve moving parts which can wear or become corroded and eventually need to be replaced. A bad fuse is much easier to identify and replace than a bad breaker. breakers are rated for many mre cycles that most ever experience


2. Fuses come in a much wider variety of denominations than breakers, making it easy to find the exact amperage you want. breakerscover all the required ranges and pretty standard, just like fuses


3. Changing the current limitations on a circuit by changing a fuse is far preferable to me than swapping out a breaker or installing inline fuses at the fixture. (e.g. replacing your incandescent fixtures with LEDs and their ridiculously tiny wires).

breakers are easy to change, but since breakers and fuses are sized based on wire size once the wire is installed you wouldnt change its size

If you dont want breakers just say that with no reason given instead of using fake reasons.

[Bycrick]

As Sailorboy points out, most Class A/C breakers will last almost forever. Certainly more cycles than the typical toggle switch unless specifically rated for DC. I can’t remember the last time I had to replace a failed circuit breaker. But if/when I do have to replace one, it’s often not easy given the mechanics involved.

While the breaker manufacturers CAN supply breakers in seemingly infinite combinatuons of size, shape, ratings, characteristics, what’s available off-the-shelf is far more limiting. If I’m actually doing all the engineering for circuit protection, I can find the exact, slow-blow, fast trip, etc. in a fuse while it would be a custom order breaker. Most people won’t go to this much trouble anyway.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

As Sailorboy points out, most Class A/C breakers will last almost forever.

That has not been my experience. They fail reasonably often as they age. Before outright failure the contacts develop higher resistance. This is a common cause of intermittent problems. It is worth periodically checking the voltage drop between the circuit breaker terminals. If your panel is older, expect to find a few that are under performing.

[sailorboy1]

Probably not much different than corrosion on fuse holders and wire terminals. Everyone with a boat should understand that electrical connections fail.

[Bycrick]

My experience with good Class A/C breakers is simply different. I’ve replaced them because they were corroded, or overheated from bad connections,,or to change the amperage of the circuit, but I honestly can’t remember ever having to replace one because it failed to work properly.

I’ve had far more fuse holders go bad than circuit breakers. The worst were the in-line fuse holders for 3AG glass cartridge fuses. I’ve had to replace dozens of those. ATC/ATM blade fuse holders seems to work better and last longer.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Probably not much different than corrosion on fuse holders and wire terminals. Everyone with a boat should understand that electrical connections fail.

I suspect a switch and fuse holder is overall less reliable in a marine environment. There are more connection points and potential for a high resistance contacts to develop.

It is helpful that whatever you choose can be easily exchanged. Some modern boats with propriety panels can create a problem with this issue. This is exacerbated by the trend to fit a very small number of circuit breakers. Failure of one breaker can effect many circuits. Ideally plan the panel so that there is some redundancy. For example, rather than all navigation lights connected to one circuit breaker putting the tricolour on a different circuit breaker to the lower navigation lights provides some protection from a single circuit breaker fault.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

I can’t remember the last time I had to replace a failed circuit breaker.

On my 39 year old boat where I have about 30 breakers on DIN-rails, I need to change 3 or 4. The rest is still operational and original. So on average lets say one per decade.

Of the 20 or so panel mounted breakers for boats, 2 have failed in 39 years.

Don't ask why the original owner used so many breakers. Must have been a fetish of his.

[StoneCrab]

Aircraft Spruce and Specialty carries circuit breakers that will fit through your old round fuse holes. AircraftSpruce.com

On Amazon look up WUPP 12 Volt Fuse Block or WINDCAMP AP-8 port 40 amp Connector Power Splitter for some options. Wire from the distribution block to the switch. You will have your power distribution, fuses and blown fuse indicators.

Just query "distribution block" for more options.

Some people don't like Anderson Power Poles saying that they can come loose. If you put a piece of wire in the hole of the connector after they are joined, the connector is secured and can't be unplugged until the wire or clip is removed...in the other hand, working on the system is super easy with the power poles.

[Bycrick]

One should be aware that the "blown fuse" indicators often don’t work. If they’re wired, as is most common, across the fuse element, they assume that there’s voltage on the line side of the fuse AND that there is a ground on the other side, usually through the connected device. For example, with an incandescent light fixture, the blown-fuse indicator won’t work if the switch on the fixture is OFF or if the bulb is burned out, or there’s a bad connection.

As to the inherent reliability of circuit breakers, the Blue Sea specs say that they're good for 10000 cycles. But, they don’t say whether that means they’ll mechanically fail, or whether that’s at full-load switching or at no load, or whether that’s tripping it off manually or with a short circuit, or what happens if you leave them turned on, with the various springs compressed for ten years and then cycle them.

There’s no RIGHT answer for this question. The fact that lots of boats have elaborate breaker panels isn’t a good reason to do it yourself.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

As to the inherent reliability of circuit breakers, the Blue Sea specs say that they're good for 10000 cycles. But, they don’t say whether that means they’ll mechanically fail, or whether that’s at full-load switching or at no load, or whether that’s tripping it off manually or with a short circuit, or what happens if you leave them turned on,

Bluesea products are well made. Their circuit breakers are produced by Carling. The 10,000 switch rating is measured at the rated current so is a realistic specification. However, keep in mind for a full time cruising boat this number is a life of less than 10 years for a breaker switched three times a day. Also, this does not take into account factors such as switching with salty fingers on a boat.

The nice thing about these Bluesea breakers is they have been widely used for many years so identically fitting replacements should be available for some time to come. This is much better than many manufacturers and boat builders that use products that are likely to be difficult to source when replacement is needed.

[Bycrick]

I see that, yet again, I didn’t make my point understandable. I wasn’t trying to make the point that circuit breakers, in general or the Carling/Blue Sea specifically, were “unreliable." Quite the contrary. Ive got 42 Class A in my panel, on a 40-year-old boat, and have replaced none of them due to a failure. None.

The point that I was trying to make, and obviously failed, was that the statistical reliability numbers quoted by manufacturers, even when completely honest, don’t necessarily compare to another manufacturer's equally honest numbers taken under different conditions. And neither number may be applicable to any one specific application.

So the various posts about "xxx is more reliable than yyy" might, or might not, have anything to do with the specific case in question.

A panel made with good quality circuit breakers, used within their ratings, isn’t likely to be any more reliable than a similar panel built with industrial-quality fuse holders and high-quality DC-rated switches.

Which design one chooses isn’t strongly influenced by the "statically reliability."

[Lake-Effect]

If I can go back to the OP's requirement for a moment , I like the idea of blade-fuse blocks, as proposed by JPK and others, mounted behind the panel - well-labeled of course.

The holes left on the panel after removing all the individual glass-fuse holders could be replaced by indicator lights, or by hole-plugs.