Solar prices are about to go up

[Kerry1]

Originally Posted by CarlF

These tariffs will never happen -- as most tariffs don't. This is negotiating about something else.

That's because solar is growing so fast in the US that the US manufactures can't possibly supply the demand in the US for new panels. I flew in a small plane over the cranberry bogs of Cape Cod a few months ago - the bogs are growing solar panels - thousands upon thousands of them. With heavy construction equipment installing thousands more. I'm not sure where my Thanksgiving cranberry sauce will come from - but it's not here.

Solar is now the cheapest way to generate new utility-scale electricity. It's dropped under $0.02/kWh in other countries. That's with no subsidies. And it's going to keep getting cheaper. Average US electric price is 600% higher at $0.12/kWH.

https://thinkprogress.org/stunner-lo...-f3b620d04010/

Wow, while reading this just happened to cast my eye over my electricity bill. In little ol' New Zealand deep in the South Pacific where most of our power is generated through an abundance of hydro generation (traditionally I think the cheapest form of generation) my utility company charges at two rates. I think it's a different charge for water heating. They are: $NZ0.26.25c/kWh and $NZ 0.21.81c/kWh. Even considering the difference in dollar values with US$ I think the relative cost is way higher in NZ as a proportion of average income.

[Nightsky]

Originally Posted by normdeeley

Coal and oil are dead.

Not as long as those industries can buy politicians. All they have to do is threaten to "primary" a candidate to bring him/her in to line to their way of thinking. Very effective tactic of the Gun Lobby.

[skipgundlach]

As there seem to be many well informed sources here, just as a matter of curiosity, how much subsidization/bailout/whatever has Sunpower received?

Their panels/cells are - I would guess - the most expensive available.

That they are significantly - as much as half again - more efficient drove my purchase there, at an 'interesting' number per watt, rather than the 50 cent watts bruited/bragged about on other boats here on CF...

So, what has been their bailout/subsidy?

[CarlF]

Sunpower has never received a bailout. They had a loan guarantee from the Department of Energy. But they are 60% owned by the Dutch oil company Total (who paid $1.38 billion). They've never had a problem paying the market rate interest on the loan.

I don't believe Sunpower receives any subsidies either. The people who buy Sunpower panels may get a subsidy in terms of a rebate or tax credit but I think that's ended for most people. And those subsidies went for any solar panel not just Sunpower's.

The DOE loan program made famous by the bankruptcy of Soylndra has turned out to be a great deal for taxpayers. Only a few of the loans went bad (like Solyndra). Most have done fine and they've collectively paid far more in interest to the government than was lost in the failures. It's not often that the government makes a profit.

[CarlF]

Kerry1,

The price is just for the electricity not the transmission and other things utilities tack on. In Boston my electricity costs $0.23 kWh delivered.

We're pretty excited here because -- despite what you read about Americans - in Massachusetts, we're building one of the largest offshore wind farms in the world (1.6GW). It will be 15 miles south of Martha's Vineyard so the rich beachfront owners won't object as they can't see that far. All approved and permitted. A huge benefit to the local economy and will bring electric prices down once they come on line.

Unfortunately, there's no reason for me to sail out there except to see it. It's not on the way to or from anywhere.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Kerry1,

The price is just for the electricity not the transmission and other things utilities tack on. In Boston my electricity costs $0.23 kWh delivered.

We're pretty excited here because -- despite what you read about Americans - in Massachusetts, we're building one of the largest offshore wind farms in the world (1.6GW). It will be 15 miles south of Martha's Vineyard so the rich beachfront owners won't object as they can't see that far. All approved and permitted. A huge benefit to the local economy and will bring electric prices down once they come on line.

Unfortunately, there's no reason for me to sail out there except to see it. It's not on the way to or from anywhere.

I wonder what their hurricane procedures are. Seems all it would take is a real bad winter to sink the whole project.

[B_Hunter45]

Originally Posted by newhaul

every true but do you realize how much pollution production of solar panels creates?
How about that lifepo4 bank in your prius ( or other items) they both produce massive amounts of pollution.

This is exactly what I am claiming, we should include the cost of pollution into ANY product and do the math. But the government must be the one that creates this leveled field, and unfortunately politicians can't be trusted.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Maka

Solar energy has its place.
I have it on my boat to help charge batteries. Perfect !
Putting them on my house makes no sense, practically or economically.

.

That is ridiculous! Think how you can screw the electric companies with net metering. Now of course the electric companies just pass that lost delivery charge onto those who do not enjoy solar. But there has to be sacrifices made by the general public to ensure the maximum usage of renewables. Remember--- SUPPORT YOUR GREENIE

#$%^ GEES, I JUST REALIZED THAT I AM IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC CATEGORY paying for lost distribution costs enjoyed by many solar users.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by normdeeley

Are we carefully forgetting the tens of billions of dollars given the coal and oil industries over their very profitable lifetimes? Solar is how EVERYTHING got here! To think that it is not the source for our continued survival is just plain stupid. Coal and oil are dead.

you can't compare how much subsidy that any field has been given in their entire lifespan .
Lets compare the numbers for each within the confines of the last ten years ( or 20 if it makes you feel better) I'm sure the numbers are out there. ( say oil was given a billion over its life that would be 8 million per year for oil ) that was just for illustration not exact numbers)

[getyourbone]

Originally Posted by Maka

When the technology becomes economically feasible then it will support itself.

In the mean time ....let it go.

Simple Free Market principle.

Apparently your parents should’ve considered the same concept.

[Kerry1]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Kerry1,

The price is just for the electricity not the transmission and other things utilities tack on. In Boston my electricity costs $0.23 kWh delivered.

Yes that puts it in perspective more. The price I quoted were net electricity charges. If I add in the "Daily Fixed Charge", "Electricity Authority Levy" plus Goods & Services Tax at 15% then 899kWh cost us NZ$323.66 or NZ$0.36/kWh.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Kerry1,

The price is just for the electricity not the transmission and other things utilities tack on. In Boston my electricity costs $0.23 kWh delivered.

We're pretty excited here because -- despite what you read about Americans - in Massachusetts, we're building one of the largest offshore wind farms in the world (1.6GW). It will be 15 miles south of Martha's Vineyard so the rich beachfront owners won't object as they can't see that far. All approved and permitted. A huge benefit to the local economy and will bring electric prices down once they come on line.

Unfortunately, there's no reason for me to sail out there except to see it. It's not on the way to or from anywhere.

I see no reason for jubilation! I also live here in Massachusetts. But back to the wind!!!

National Grid was authorized by the Department of Public Utilities in Providence, RI who will be one of the wind job's customers to pay as much as $0.43/KW to wind electricity producers. WHOM DO YOU BELIEVE ULTIMATELY PAYS FOR THIS OUTRAGEOUS AGREEMENT??? Rest assured, it will not be National Grid's stock holders

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Kerry1

Yes that puts it in perspective more. The price I quoted were net electricity charges. If I add in the "Daily Fixed Charge", "Electricity Authority Levy" plus Goods & Services Tax at 15% then 899kWh cost us NZ$323.66 or NZ$0.36/kWh.

and I was mad when mine went from $.11kwh to $ .13 kwh USD.

[Elie]

Originally Posted by Maka

Solar energy has its place.
I have it on my boat to help charge batteries. Perfect !
Putting them on my house makes no sense, practically or economically.

The US Fed has plowed billions of tax payer dollars over the last decade, into solar.
Return on investment so far ? 0

When the technology becomes economically feasible then it will support itself.

In the mean time ....let it go.

Simple Free Market principle.

The problem with that statment, is that what you call free market. The real total cost of of energy has to take into account the pollution and environmental factors. In general these arguments fall short of a real and total cost evaluation including impacts on health.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by B_Hunter45

We need to put the cost of using polluting energy into the mix, the 'pure' simple market doesn't bring the cost of polluted environment into consideration. At the end of the day we ALL pay the price of polluted environment, we must create a mechanism that will make the ones that generate pollution to pay for it. Unfortunately, the politicians are the worse, the only thing they care about is reelected. So we can't expect them to change the situation.

Bingo