Sparing and repair strategy for large inverter-chargers

[Jammer]

Inverter chargers are a single point of failure, yet their size, weight, and cost makes it hard to justify carrying one as a spare.


What is your experience with the reliability of these devices?


What is the worldwide availability of parts and service?


Has anyone been successful carrying spare internal parts and repair procedures, in order to perform repairs themselves or to have a qualified local technician make repairs?

[nebster]

I would carry a second one.

Another way to skin the cat is to purchase two, smaller units and stack them. Then, if push comes to shove and one falls over, you have the other available until you can get a replacement. But in nominal use, you get everything you paid for.

[thinwater]

Wouldn't most sailors have two independent chargers? (Solar and engine)


Is there anything really vital on the inverter? If you are worried about charging cellphones and laptops, you can do that off 12V.


No need.

[transmitterdan]

I agree with Thinwater. A cruiser will have at least 3 source of DC charging; solar, engine alternator and the mains based charger. If there is no AC genset then one could install an inexpensive modified sine inverter as a backup. It can be sized smaller and able to run only the largest load needed to survive comfortably. For small loads like PC, tablet and phone we use a 300W inverter at the nav station. It is small and efficient for light loads.

Realistically, inverter chargers can be had in most parts of the world. I do not carry a spare. Storing electronic devices onboard is fraught with issues. Electronics that sit in storage compartments for a year or more are not nearly as reliable as devices that are used every day.

[Tillsbury]

Yes, if I lost the inverter/charger I’d lose aircon, microwave, coffee machine. Not exactly mission critical. All pc/mobile nav equipment is powered from 12v anyway, through USB ports in every cabin and dc-dc converters where necessary. Although it’s nice to have, if it died I’d only notice it for charging in a marina, and if I’m in a marina I can buy a new one pretty easily.

[Dockhead]

No, the inverter charger, as the nexus between AC and DC, is mission critical on some boats.

I have had a Victron inverter failure, and it's ugly. It takes out the whole AC system, since all AC power runs through it!

I now carry spare separate charger and inverter, but a better solution is to gang two of them.

[transmitterdan]

If you have a failure of inverter it is a simple matter to bypass it and run all mains loads from genset or shore. Bypassing need not be complicated.

If mains AC is critical to survival then you should know how to get the inverter out of the picture. Ideally you should install a simple patch panel that will let you do it in a few minutes.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

If you have a failure of inverter it is a simple matter to bypass it and run all mains loads from genset or shore. Bypassing need not be complicated.

I agree. I think a good installation would have isolation and bypass switches somewhere so that rewiring isn't necessary to accomplish that.


Some electrical approaches that are widely advocated here place the inverter-charger in a fairly critical role. Perhaps not for survival, but for being able to achieve the objectives of the journey in important ways.


For example, there are proponents of using a DC genset, or no genset at all, in which case the only source of AC power on the boat would be the inverter. There are also boat where the AC genset is the primary means of charging the house bank.


Replacing an inverter with whatever's available locally would be involved and in many situations undesirable. Xantrex, Magnum, and Victron have varying shapes, ventilation requirements, and connection placement -- not to mention incompatible remotes, temperature sensors, and interfaces to other components.

[billknny]

On our boat we consider the inverter a luxury, it is not required to run the boat. AC needs in the boat are not "mission critical" and the genset can always supply if needed.

We have several different charging sources: solar; drive engine alternator; genset powered 3000W inverter/70 Amp charger; genset powered 100 amp charger.

We have a 30 amp shore power supply, so when we are connected to shore power only the inverter/charger is used to top off and or float the batteries. It's sophisticated load balancing and topping features are a great plus. If we are charging from the genset, we use both the inverter/charger and the 100 amp charger together to top up the batteries quickly and minimize genset time.

Our most significant "single point of failure" is the genset. We can live with just the solar and engine alternator, but would put a crimp in our lifestyle :-)

For very long range cruisers it is always important to remember that every boat is one lightening bolt away from a near total lack of electrics. Important to have a plan...

[Colin A]

I have worked with a fellow who has done inverter installs on a number of ARC boats. His approach is to run bypass switches and to have an additional charger installed. In which case an inverter failure on a Gen equipped boat just results in running the Gen more. It also allows using a standalone charger with a wide input to charge the batteries while running the inverter to say power some outlets from non native shore power.

[a64pilot]

As much as possible for any system, you have redundancy. It’s not always possible of course.
It’s very easy as has been noted to wire past an inverter, it’s just two wires you disconnect and wire together, then your generator becomes the other source of AC power, and your other battery charger charges the bank, or your Solar or alternator.

A Magnum has a couple of boards that you could stock if you wanted to, it’s a modular build.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I agree with Thinwater. A cruiser will have at least 3 source of DC charging; solar, engine alternator and the mains based charger. If there is no AC genset then one could install an inexpensive modified sine inverter as a backup. It can be sized smaller and able to run only the largest load needed to survive comfortably. For small loads like PC, tablet and phone we use a 300W inverter at the nav station. It is small and efficient for light loads.

Realistically, inverter chargers can be had in most parts of the world. I do not carry a spare. Storing electronic devices onboard is fraught with issues. Electronics that sit in storage compartments for a year or more are not nearly as reliable as devices that are used every day.

Agree with this totally. On Roxy we charge with solar and 2.5 KW engine alternator. The generator provides AC for the boat and 3.5 KW inverter charger. It also drives a 1.5 KW alternator for emergency charging. Alternators are externally regulated by Balmar charge controllers. we have a 300 watt full sine inverter for small users like lap tops. we can easily run for very long times without the 3.5 KW inverter charger. We do not carry spares for the inverters. Most inverter chargers are not easily serviced. if one fails, you will probably buy a new one. They are in stock throughout much of the Caribbean.

[jkleins]

I use a second inverter-charger (a duplicate of the primary) as a second charger to increase charging amps when running the generator. It can easily be moved into place if there is a problem with primary. If you can take advantage of the amps during charging it has worked out well. 100 amp chargers are almost identical in pricing with the inverter-chargers that have thee same output.

Jim

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

If you have a failure of inverter it is a simple matter to bypass it and run all mains loads from genset or shore. Bypassing need not be complicated.

If mains AC is critical to survival then you should know how to get the inverter out of the picture. Ideally you should install a simple patch panel that will let you do it in a few minutes.

Yes, of course. In my case, I just removed the incoming AC leads (coming from the transfer switch generator-shore) from the I/C and put them onto the outgoing AC terminal. Not all that simple because of access but nothing tragic of course.


But without the inverter, you can't run AC loads off either batts or alternator, and you can't charge with either generator or shore. That's a significant disruption of functionality of a boat with a lot of AC 230v gear, like mine.



"Mission critical" was probably an exaggeration -- all gear needed for safe navigation is DC, and getting the AC system back on line can wait of course. But when you're out cruising you want those things to work. My next boat will have two ganged I/C, and I recommend this configuration for boats with significant AC power systems.

[hellosailor]

Jammer-
Reliability these days is very much a matter of quality control. A good name brand may cost 3x what an anonymous AliExpress brand costs, but that's probably going to reflect in the reliability.
From an engineering standpoint, you've probably got a control IC and a board full of discrete components. Properly chosen, designed, manufactured, etc. IC's should literally last 1000 years while discrete components are only good for 100 years. (If everything is properly made, used, etc.)
So...reliability? From a good vendor, after perhaps 100-hour burn-in time to screen out DOA issues? Should be similar to any piece of consumer electronics. Decades of faithful service, as long as you don't abuse or overload it.
But if you really *must* have it perform all the time, and you plan to sail outside of overnight courier range (the world keeps shrinking)...then it really doesn't matter how reliable they are, you need a hot spare, not just spare parts and a gamble. That's the minimum to carry, if it really is essential for you.
You can carry all the spare parts you please, but there are always odd failure modes, like a poorly cast piece of plastic, which happens to be a critical part of a case or a switch.