Starting engine when batteries are dead

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

Few modern engines have a hand start capacity, whern once m,any of them did. Even large engines using compressed air to start them had a hand-operated air pump to use in an emergency.



Flat batteries these days could mean death. Some jump starter is pretty much essential, and if your starter motor gives up the ghost, a becalmed boat is at the mercy of the current if the water is deep. In reef areas the depth of water changes quickly.



There is a big opening for someone making a start system that can be fitted to a diesel engine--like the old clockwork starters some cars once had. I would sure as hell buy one.

For me this is all moot, the prime mover on my baby is a 4.5hp out board soon to be a 6hp and electric start isn’t an option for either.

That said spring starters are available for lager engines from 0.5l and up. But expect to pay a good chunk for them and I believe most mount instead of a regular starter so this is not a last minute emergency use item unless you choose to forgo electric start altogether and leave it mounted permanently. Maybe they could be mounted elsewhere on the engine but I haven’t been motivated enough to investigate.

Here are several makers:
https://startwell.com/the-startwell-mini/
http://www.springstarter.com/how-spring-starting-works/
https://www.ipu.co.uk/products/spring-starters/
http://www.workwellengineering.com/mechanical.html

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by newhaul

they occasionally pop up check with v12 engineering
Home - V12 Engineering

Yes, a company run by Rich Langtry who last year moved from Toronto to Vancouver BC. He supplies parts for the BMW line of engines. He got me some parts last year for spares.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

Yes, a company run by Rich Langtry who last year moved from Toronto to Vancouver BC. He supplies parts for the BMW line of engines. He got me some parts last year for spares.

yep I have gotten many parts from him he is a great guy to deal with .

[Connemara]

For the northern boat (OMC Johnson saildrive) I have a pull cord that wraps around the flywheel of the motor, just like (wonder why?) an old outboard motor.

For the southern boat (Volvo Penta saildrive) there's a way to cross-link all the batteries, with the pious hope that they won't all be dead at the same time. Back-up after that is to call the Coast Guard.

Connemara

[Simi 60]

Can't see batts ever being an issue for us but I do need to get that spare starter motor.

[Surrymark]

This will start an engine multiple times and holds a charge all season, unlike auto parts store units I've had.

Clore Automotive Booster PAC ES5000 1500 Peak Amp 12V Jump Starter

[Perfect Ride]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Do you have a means of starting your propulsion engine in the event that all battery power is lost? Did you arrive at this redundancy deliberately or as a side effect of other goals?

We have solar, wind and generator for recharge options and being a cat have dual engines with separate start batteries all connected with battery combiners to allow isolation or combination between house bank and engine starter batteries. We also have four starter batteries (2x volvo D2-40, 1x generator, 1xYamaha 20hp electric start) the later two isolated from propulsion systems. I do not have a manual crank option configured but interesting hearing others ideas. Thanks for that.

Originally Posted by Jammer

How often have you had to use this capability?

Never: Batteries have always been able to start the propulsion engines on this boat. That after 4+ years, 40,000 miles. Knocking on wood.

Originally Posted by Jammer

Do you carry an extra starting motor and the tools necessary to install it?

Tools yes, extra no, but we have dual engines being a cat.

[captmike82]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Do you have a means of starting your propulsion engine in the event that all battery power is lost? Did you arrive at this redundancy deliberately or as a side effect of other goals?


How often have you had to use this capability?


Do you carry an extra starting motor and the tools necessary to install it?

Battery pack from sears. Small and will jump start your engine

[parkstone bay]

In an old book I inherited from my grampa there was a chapter headed "sailing a square-rigged vessel off a lee shore", the first sentence read: "The prudent mariner will not find himself in this predicament" ("The Prudent Mariner" became a family catchphrase, and would have been our pub, if we'd ever started it.). So, I suggest the same Prudent Mariner will not run down his starter batteries.
But the most important thing is never, ever, EVER to use the start batteries for anything other than starting the engine - not bilge pump, not radio, not gas alarm, that's right: nada, zero, nothing. If you want to have all these things, (and whether or not we need them and how to power them is outwith the scope of this thread), then let them run down the house batteries; apart from anything else, your domestics are probably higher capacity than your starter battery/ies, and it is/they are deep-cycle. But, switchable interlinks from your domestics are a good call as a get out of jail card. And operate decompressors if they're fitted. It's a bit difficult push-starting most boats.
And use either VSR or diode splitter to ensure preferential charge of the starter battery. (If you have twin engines, then have, say, the starboard one only charge the starter, and the port one charge the domestics. I believe that's why multi-engine aircraft always start one particular engine first.)

[Surrymark]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post

Flat batteries these days could mean death. Some jump starter is pretty much essential, and if your starter motor gives up the ghost, a becalmed boat is at the mercy of the current if the water is deep. In reef areas the depth of water changes quickly.

Assuming the wind is dead, DON'T PANIC AND neglect your emergency brake in situations like this.
Have a good anchor (i like the Rocna-Manson designs) and a long rode. Even it it's too deep, the anchor, hopefully, should catch before you hit hard.

If the boat is drifting, it ain't going to stop while you're below.

[DavidMRea]

I've used a power pack to start a Diesel engine on a yacht, and always carry one charged up in case.

Here's just one of many:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/TACKLIFE-Ju...ack+for+diesel

[sailorladd]

When I was cruising with my 10 HP Yanmar YSM it had a decompression lever (I forget the correct terminology) but essentially it lifted the exhaust port allowing one to crank the engine over easily until the momentum was high, and then quickly flip the lever and the sudden compression usually kicked the engine on...it can also be used when the starter motor is being used, to save battery power..

Now that I have a 3 cylinder Vetus, I no longer have this wonderful feature, but I have three times the power...lol I have heard that there are engines out there that have a device on their prop shafts where one can wrap a starting rope around and up to the boom above the engine, and then to jibe the boat under sail which in turn rotates the prop shaft quickly and is able to start the engine... I never had one but I can see the idea working in a pinch...

But there are so many spares one could carry on a boat that there comes a time when all but the most important are worth taking... weight and storage space being the key factors on a small boat at sea...I guess the best insurance against this is to be prepared and sail accordingly to any failure of any part of the boat at any time, and to maintain one's boat at all times...

[raysmythe]

So many great ideas. I loved the one with the line from the main boom Anyway, here is my plan:

1. If the battery is too weak to spin my old Yanmar fast enough, I will hold the compression release while a helper presses the starter button. Once the engine gets some RPMs going, I'll release the lever. This works every time if I have a helper.
2. I carry a lithium jump starter that I can charge with solar. I haven't had to use it, but it works on my car and truck, so I trust it.
3. The engine has a dog for a hand crank. I've used it at the dock, and can do it without a helper by holding the compression release, cranking as fast as I can, then releasing the lever as I'm pushing down on the crank. I can continue to assist the flywheel inertia for a couple of revolutions, then, if it doesn't work, I catch my breath and try again. The key is rotational speed.

I really like the post that mentions the lee shore. Yes. First of all, you're a sailor and must take proper precautions, to include anchoring and keeping a good watch.

Thanks again for opening up a good topic. I hope my addition helps someone to get out of trouble. Bottom line on all I said, is to practice at the dock and learn your systems before you go out.

Fair winds!
Ray

[Kirok]

I carry two spare starters.

The spare for the starboard engine I bolt to the bell-housing of the port engine, to keep it out of the way but handy.

The spare for the port engine...

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Do you have a means of starting your propulsion engine in the event that all battery power is lost?

If you mean the ability to start the engine without any electric power, the answer is no. We can only turn the engine with the starter (not interested in rigging a rope to the boom, thanks). However in 32 years with this boat, mostly cruising, we've never used all of our electrical power. We have a simple boat. One engine, no gen set, no jump pack, never needed it.

We've a separate starting battery, rarely used, but frequently checked to make sure it is still good. Is there as a back up. NEVER switch to the start battery to supply house needs, such as stereo. Start the engine instead.

Normally we don't bother to switch to the start battery and just start the engine with the house system.

Start battery and house battery can be joined, we've done that a few times.

Originally Posted by Jammer

Do you carry an extra starting motor and the tools necessary to install it?

Yes, we carry a spare starter, with solenoid, as well as a few other key parts, alternator, regulator, water pumps, various hoses and bits to be able to jury rig stuff. The key is, if you don't have a spare, have a plan for how you will get along without it.

Tools, yes.