To Grease Or Not To Grease?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by capt-couillon

Boy am I gonna get a load of grief for this one
Myself I do not trust, and do not use straight crimp connections for high current connections such as starter or windless circuits. It has been my observation and experience that crimp only connections in a marine environment degrade quickly due to internal oxidation, leading to high resistance and the associated increase in temperature.

My standard method for making up a high current terminal is to tin the wire (if not already tinned), tin the interior of the crimp on connector, coat both components with a light covering of rosin based flux. Slide a 3-4" piece of heat shrink over the wire (well back from the joint) and lightly crimp the connector in place making sure you have a half inch or so of bare wire between the connector and the wire insulation. Lightly clamp a pair of vice-grips on the exposed wire to act as a heat sink.

Get out the propane torch and a spool of 60/40 rosin core solder. Heat the connector until the solder melts when you touch the exposed wire in front of your heat sink (not when you touch it to the connector). Flood the connector cavity with solder till full. When it cools, slide the heat shrink down over the insulation and connector cavity and shrink into place.

Takes a few minutes, but no air, no water, and in 40 years of doing it this way, no failed connections.

Let the rants begin

Oh, and a bit of Lanocoat smeared on the connections after you make them up to the windless solenoid will keep them from "greening up" as well.

Your mileage may vary

I don't see why you would get grief. If it were 22AWG yes . A sound recommendation.

[lateral]

Sounds great & I intended to do that bar the grease.
Too many lugs, too little time.
And an antsy neighbour complaining about " me working on my boat in a marina".
Guess I just have to mega them regularly.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by lateral

Sounds great & I intended to do that bar the grease.
Too many lugs, too little time.
And an antsy neighbour complaining about " me working on my boat in a marina".
Guess I just have to mega them regularly.

Wow, lateral,

Exactly where does the neighbour think you should work on your boat? Or, is this some kind of "Royal" club where there are a lot of no-no's? Or, is the neighbour the kind of fellow/gal who always complains about SOMEthing?

Sorry, but I think the neighbor's fuss is really OTT, unless you're disturbing their sleep or something like that. What do they care?

Ann

[lateral]

Apparently he does it with every newcomer.

Maybe he failed police entry requirements and feels unfulfilled?

Management knew it was a WIP. And, I have adhered to the "no welding /grinding".

Work dock for that.

[PaulMarion]

Spot on Captain!! Never fails!! I also use Tectyl spray around all electrics to prevent salt ingress, Great stuff

[Whitebread117]

Dielectric grease before crimping is A-OK. The mechanical crimping action will force the grease out of the contact leaving a metal to metal connection surrounded by insulating grease. A lot of people don't understand that and only recommend dielectric after the joint but for best results coat terminal and wire in dielectric before crimping.

Note solder is different- no dielectric prior to joint. That being said I had a solder joint fail the other day. 74 Pearson, original engine room blower switch. High resistance short, blower switch got too hot to touch, and solder wire connection melted off the back of the switch.

Thankfully it was easily accessible and we were in mostly calm conditions - seas 3-5' winds 12-15kt. Yes it lasted 40+ years but the failure could've been nasty. I like solder joints for most things - but not on boats.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Whitebread117

Dielectric grease before crimping is A-OK. The mechanical crimping action will force the grease out of the contact leaving a metal to metal connection surrounded by insulating grease. A lot of people don't understand that and only recommend dielectric after the joint but for best results coat terminal and wire in dielectric before crimping.

Thank you for that clear description.

[NorthCoastJoe]

I solder everything, 16 gauge to 00, no failures, I don't trust crimps alone.

[Lambretta]

I've been making high grade crimped connections for industry for 30 years and call tell you for sure that there is a huge difference in quality (and cost) between the high end crimpers and the cheap ones that almost all non-commercial people have. Cheap crimped connections are inferior.

Solder is a very good connection on sailboats.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input
I would be interested to know what make(s) of crimpers and and terminals you would recommend. Nothing like drawing on experience!

Thanks

[zboss]

Our installation manual specifically mentioned using CRC Heavy Duty Corrosion Inhibitor or similar once the connections were made. It also recommends spraying the motor casing and such. Because these wires are some of the most likely wires to come in contact with the elements they also ask that you disassemble yearly, clean, and respray with corrosion inhibitor. I can't see why dielectric grease would not be equally effective - as long as the product used can't get washed away.

I follow a similar method of crimping as mentioned above.

[jieff lerenard]

Sorry to put it this way but what follows is the definite answer and the end of discussion on solder vs crimps on the quality of connection aspect:

In a corrosive environment the only viable electric connection will be the one that actually insulate from or negate the exposure of the parts to that environment, and the only method of joining two conductors that will achieve this is soldering
(lets forget welding ). Not only will soldering grow a mass around the joint that will perfectly insulate it from the external elements but the process of soldering itself will create a molecular fusion of the metals where the actual "contact" disappears and becomes a continuous "transition"of metals.
Only weakness: a gross overload of the circuits could melt the solder ,that is what fuse or beakers are for.
Also: For the purpose of regular boat circuitry the issues of galvanic corrosion and bimetallic couple in wire soldering are negligible .

[osprey877]

Originally Posted by jieff lerenard

In a corrosive environment the only viable electric connection will be the one that actually insulate from or negate the exposure of the parts to that environment, and the only method of joining two conductors that will achieve this is soldering

Surely that is exactly what Dielectric grease and similar coatings do. They coat the wires with a water and air proof coating that prevents any contact with the outside environment. And grease, being flexible, is not subject to fracture from vibration.

[AKA-None]

If only a crimp were gas tight ...

[jieff lerenard]

Originally Posted by capt-couillon

Boy am I gonna get a load of grief for this one
Myself I do not trust, and do not use straight crimp connections for high current connections such as starter or windless circuits. It has been my observation and experience that crimp only connections in a marine environment degrade quickly due to internal oxidation, leading to high resistance and the associated increase in temperature.

My standard method for making up a high current terminal is to tin the wire (if not already tinned), tin the interior of the crimp on connector, coat both components with a light covering of rosin based flux. Slide a 3-4" piece of heat shrink over the wire (well back from the joint) and lightly crimp the connector in place making sure you have a half inch or so of bare wire between the connector and the wire insulation. Lightly clamp a pair of vice-grips on the exposed wire to act as a heat sink.

Get out the propane torch and a spool of 60/40 rosin core solder. Heat the connector until the solder melts when you touch the exposed wire in front of your heat sink (not when you touch it to the connector). Flood the connector cavity with solder till full. When it cools, slide the heat shrink down over the insulation and connector cavity and shrink into place.

Takes a few minutes, but no air, no water, and in 40 years of doing it this way, no failed connections.

Let the rants begin

Oh, and a bit of Lanocoat smeared on the connections after you make them up to the windless solenoid will keep them from "greening up" as well.

Your mileage may vary

KUDOS: On high current connections and on all connections.

It is called quality craftsmanship.

[jieff lerenard]

Originally Posted by osprey877

Surely that is exactly what Dielectric grease and similar coatings do. They coat the wires with a water and air proof coating that prevents any contact with the outside environment. And grease, being flexible, is not subject to fracture from vibration.

Simple contact is a poor connection,oh let's make it better with pressure,
but it is corroding ,let's put some grease on it,but it is runny,let's paint some rubber ,but it is tacky,well let,s use heat shrink
You cannot make bad into good,you can only hide it.
sailboats do not vibrate beside vibration break the wire not the solder.
All simple facts