Trojan short T105 terminals

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

For those reading this thread about Nyloc nuts and Loctite on battery studs...

Don't do it.

Neither is required.

The risk of a high impedance connection, heat generation, and fire is increased. The risk of battery post damage, heat generation and fire, or sparks and explosion is increased.

The notion that it is required to maintain secure battery cable connections is false.

To ensure cables are secure with standard hex nuts:

1. Torque the nuts to battery manufacturers specs (120 – 180 in-lbs in this case)

2. Secure the batteries and cables to prevent physical movement or vibration from working on the cable and possibly loosening the connection.

These steps alone are sufficient to ensure the cables are properly and securely fastened.

If you need to know why one shouldn't MacGyver this stuff, just Google Boat Fire Images.

At least 90% of the time, a horrific electrical fire is due to incorrect owner wiring modification.

I have personally witnessed way too many of these first hand, in process and after the fact, because someone did not follow the 2 simple steps above.

Rod, no one's modifying wiring. Your saying there's no need for a spring washer? If that's the case then the nuts are definitely tight enough and cables are secured so they can't or will have very limited movement. Batteries will secured tightly from tommorow.

My whole concern is no room for a spring washer or standard nyloc. The thread wasn't reduced to that, it's what the thread is about. Maybe I didn't word it correctly.

BTW I started using nylocs on my previous batteries after reading mainsail suggest it in another thread sometime back. By memory his suggestion came about because of lack of length for a spring washer (if I remember correctly).

[Wotname]

I don't understand the concerns about using nylock nuts on a battery terminal.

First, most of the thread on a nylock is metal, only the very top part is nylon. Usually the metal part is of a similar size to that of a standard nut thus the resistance should be similar between the two.

Second, how much current flows though the nut, I suggest very little and what does flow, will flow though the lower section of the nut. Heating will only occur where current flows.

One day I will trial the effects of using a nylock instead of a standard nut on a battery terminal. Say let 25 amps flow though the terminal for an hour and measure the temperatures.

[Wotname]

The use loctite on a battery terminal nut is perhaps more problematic although I have never seen any technical reference to the issue. While it is often cited to be a problem, I haven't seen any credible documentation to prove it.

Clearly loctite is an insulator and thus intuitively it seems a bad idea however it is also stated that the loctite only fills the small air gap sections between the mating threads. If this is the case, then the insulating loctite is only replacing the insulating air gaps.

Clearly other trial/test is in the offing ().

FWIW, we use neither loctite or nylocks on helicopter battery terminals, just torque as Ramblinrod suggests. Vibration levels are much higher than your average cruising yacht!

[sy_gilana]

I drilled into the round part and tapped a new thread, put some threaded bar in to make a second stud.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Wotname

The use loctite on a battery terminal nut is perhaps more problematic although I have never seen any technical reference to the issue. While it is often cited to be a problem, I haven't seen any credible documentation to prove it.

Clearly loctite is an insulator and thus intuitively it seems a bad idea however it is also stated that the loctite only fills the small air gap sections between the mating threads. If this is the case, then the insulating loctite is only replacing the insulating air gaps.

Clearly other trial/test is in the offing ().

FWIW, we use neither loctite or nylocks on helicopter battery terminals, just torque as Ramblinrod suggests. Vibration levels are much higher than your average cruising yacht!

Thanks for your imput Wotname. Interesting you never used spring washers etc on the helicopter batteries.
It makes me think I'm over complicating this. The batteries come with nuts only and golf carts certainly must vibrate.

I'm careful in this area as I once had a wing nut come loose on a battery many years ok while on passage .From then on its always been nuts and spring Washers or nylocs.

Anyway to late, I used some loctite prior to this thread. I've fully charged the batteries and didn't feel any heat on any of the terminals. I'll grab a temperature measureing gun next time and measure the difference (if any) between the ones I've used loctite on and the ones I haven't (series connections). Personally I don't think it's an issue, in fact I can't see how it could be, the current is running through the lugs.

Also your comment regarding forklifts only being in series explains the shorter terminal.

[daletournier]

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/b...ltdown_averted

[donradcliffe]

I'd vote for no loctite and regular nuts. I have a better feel of the torque on the nut than with a nyloc. I can't count the number of loose nuts I've found on battery terminals, never ones which I had tightened.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Thanks for your imput Wotname. Interesting you never used spring washers etc on the helicopter batteries.
It makes me think I'm over complicating this. The batteries come with nuts only and golf carts certainly must vibrate.
.................

Opps, my bad; Yes spring washers are used above the flat washer (or a flat washer with self locking nut).
This is such normal practice that I simply forgot to mention it.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I don't understand the concerns about using nylock nuts on a battery terminal.

First, most of the thread on a nylock is metal, only the very top part is nylon. Usually the metal part is of a similar size to that of a standard nut thus the resistance should be similar between the two.

Second, how much current flows though the nut, I suggest very little and what does flow, will flow though the lower section of the nut. Heating will only occur where current flows.

One day I will trial the effects of using a nylock instead of a standard nut on a battery terminal. Say let 25 amps flow though the terminal for an hour and measure the temperatures.

I failed to mention the issue with high temperature and nylocks but like pbase, I don't see this a "real" issue for similar reasons he cites.

[steamgoat]

Dale,if you have a USA friend,you can buy 18-8 stainless thin nylon nuts ((and many other useful boat fasteners) at Mc Master Carr.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

For those reading this thread about Nyloc nuts and Loctite on battery studs...

Don't do it.

Neither is required.

Well, here you go again. There is no reason not to use Nyloc nuts. They are not "insulated". And Nylon melts at a higher temperature than the plastic the battery case. If the nut makes a tight connection all the current flows from the underside of the lug to the flat surface beneath the lug. If the nut is not tight the terminal will overheat no matter if it is a Nyloc or not.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by steamgoat

Dale,if you have a USA friend,you can buy 18-8 stainless thin nylon nuts ((and many other useful boat fasteners) at Mc Master Carr.

What advantage is there to a thin nut? The number of threads engaged is more with the fat nut. Thread engagement is the thing to worry about. The threads sticking up above a thin nut are contributing nothing to the connection strength.

[Opie91]

Why not run a short cable from the positive/negative ends to a power post and then you can stack as many cables as you like? That way you can keep it to one connection per terminal.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat...tors/PowerPost

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

What advantage is there to a thin nut? The number of threads engaged is more with the fat nut. Thread engagement is the thing to worry about. The threads sticking up above a thin nut are contributing nothing to the connection strength.

Hi transmitterdan, the advantage is the thin nyloc will fit, the normal size nyloc won't, it works as a normal nut as there's not enough thread exposed for the locking part to engage, if I use the thin nyloc there is.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by daletournier

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/b...ltdown_averted

FYI for those that aren't aware.

This is the older web site of Maine Sail, aka the horse's mouth.

The newer one is http://marinehowto.com

He has not yet finished transferring all the older material over.

AFAIC those claiming nylocs are bad have been refuted. And when you consider the current path, their reasoning is inherently flawed.

I do agree that use of a too-adhesive loctite could possibly apply too much torque on the internals of the terminal when removed, but dunno if an issue in practice.

I would seek verification on that from other more reliable sources.

None is more reliable than Maine Sail IMO