Trojan v. West Marine 8D AGM batteries

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by john61ct

No, only Rolls & Dyno, in FLA.

These are AGM, so pseudo deep cycle at best.

Lifeline has two lines of 12V AGMs, one for starting and one for "deep cycle." Quick glance suggests their (laboratory) life cycle curves for the latter are the same as for their 6V deep cycle batteries.

-Chris

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by ob44

I am replacing my house batteries (Trojan 8D AGM 230 AH) and am looking at West Marine (8D AGM 245 AH made by East Penn). Does anyone know whether one is better than the other?

I doubt there’s anyway to make a judgement as “better”. I’ve had rebranded Penn batteries and they were just fine. I doubt WM is big enough of a customer for Penn to retool a production line to make “cheaper” batteries for just them.

In the end batteries are batteries. You use and abuse them till it’s time to replace them. The amount of time is mostly based on the user care.

I would check the manufacture date on the WM batteries and if good just get them as being “batteries”

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Lifeline has two lines of 12V AGMs, one for starting and one for "deep cycle." Quick glance suggests their (laboratory) life cycle curves for the latter are the same as for their 6V deep cycle batteries.

Yes, as stated, Lifeline makes top-shelf deep cycling AGM batts if you really need to go sealed. Trojan and Deka, not so much, but their FLA are super.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by ob44

I am replacing my house batteries (Trojan 8D AGM 230 AH) and am looking at West Marine (8D AGM 245 AH made by East Penn). Does anyone know whether one is better than the other?

I have not used Trojan AGMs.

I just replaced my 8D AGMs from West Marine. They were 6 or 8 years old but mostly just plugged in at a mooring.

When I got them out, I found streaks where they had leaked acid and two had cracks in the case. I think all 3 had leaked! These were AGM 8D batteries that are supposed to be leak-proof and maintenance-free.

[Scrimshaw4]

I previously had Starrette (Rolls) 12V 8D FLA's. Changed over to Lifeline 6V AGM's 10 years ago. Easier to install, smaller footprint, no maintenance and great performance. And yes they can be equalized just like a FLA. The question is why 8D vs 2 x 6V? JMHO

[ob44]

Thank you.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Scrimshaw4

I previously had Starrette (Rolls) 12V 8D FLA's. Changed over to Lifeline 6V AGM's 10 years ago. Easier to install, smaller footprint, no maintenance and great performance. And yes they can be equalized just like a FLA. The question is why 8D vs 2 x 6V? JMHO

In my case I believe the 6V's are too tall for my battery boxes. I have a hatch almost directly over the batt compartment so not too bad using the boom, a block & tackle, and a winch to lift the 8D's in & out for replacement.

[john61ct]

10-7/8 vs 10" high

but different makers may be lower

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

10-7/8 vs 10" high

but different makers may be lower

For Lifeline's, the website says 8.64" for my 8D's, and either 13+" or 15+" for the 6v ones that I believe Scrimshaw4 was referencing. 10" is about the hgt. limit on my boxes.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

One thing is for sure. West Marine does not manufacture batteries. If you are interested in West Marine as a source, you should see if you can find out who is their supplier.

East Penn. I attended a battery seminar at our local West Marine a few months ago.

[john61ct]

as stated by OP, Deka = EPM

excellent FLA, AGM not so great

same as Trojan.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Exile

In my case I believe the 6V's are too tall for my battery boxes. I have a hatch almost directly over the batt compartment so not too bad using the boom, a block & tackle, and a winch to lift the 8D's in & out for replacement.

Originally Posted by Exile

For Lifeline's, the website says 8.64" for my 8D's, and either 13+" or 15+" for the 6v ones that I believe Scrimshaw4 was referencing. 10" is about the hgt. limit on my boxes.

Lifeline's 6V GPL-4CTs -- closest to GC2 sizes -- is 9.92" high. Could work for your box.

Their GPL-6CT is 13.02" high, and their GPL-L16T is even higher.

https://lifelinebatteries.com/produc...ine-batteries/

-Chris

[Exile]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Lifeline's 6V GPL-4CTs -- closest to GC2 sizes -- is 9.92" high. Could work for your box.

Their GPL-6CT is 13.02" high, and their GPL-L16T is even higher.

https://lifelinebatteries.com/produc...ine-batteries/

-Chris

I missed the 6V GPL-4CTs. Thank you Chris.

At 220ah vs. 255ah for the 8Ds, they could be worthwhile if I could fit 3 of them in each box for a total house bank capacity of 660ah @12v (vs. 510ah for the two 8Ds). But adding two more to the house bank by using the box for the engine start batt would give me a total of 880ah, and my remaining box space could be used for one dedicated start batt for both the engine & genset.

Hmmm . . . just thinking out loud here. Gets a little trickier on the alternator charging side since I have two alternators (one for house & the other for engine start).

Fwiw, the main reason I went with AGM's over FLA is because all the batts. are directly underneath my bunk and I was somewhat concerned about gassing (mainly when charging I think). Not that AGM's don't also gas a bit, but far less as I understand it. For me anyway, and if you're going with AGMs, Lifeline's seem like the only choice because they are the only AGM that allows for conditioning/equalizing. As John & others have mentioned, this is important for a boat given that AGMs are more sensitive than FLAs to undercharging.

[john61ct]

Ability to equalize is indeed a big plus, but both Odyssey and Northstar make great batts too.

I would still advise FLA if cost per year is at all an issue, most people would not notice fumes long as the space is normally ventilated.

If you did prove sensitive, then seal it up from the living space and vent to outside.

But if saving $ not important, of course go with AGM, you know how to coddle them.

If you do then put both alts direct to House, much higher CAR, run a little current to Starter to keep topped up via ACR or Echo Charger.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Ability to equalize is indeed a big plus, but both Odyssey and Northstar make great batts too.

I would still advise FLA if cost per year is at all an issue, most people would not notice fumes long as the space is normally ventilated.

If you did prove sensitive, then seal it up from the living space and vent to outside.

But if saving $ not important, of course go with AGM, you know how to coddle them.

If you do then put both alts direct to House, much higher CAR, run a little current to Starter to keep topped up via ACR or Echo Charger.

Good advice all the way around. Definitely not sensitive to any fumes, but am concerned a bit over potential health hazard, and only then because all my batts. are directly underneath my bunk. Maybe no big deal, but not really sure.

Running both alts direct to house bank makes sense, although I need to confirm the eng alt charge wire routing. I think it runs through the switch rather than via the starter, in which case it could be easy to combine the eng start batt with the house bank, and use the G24 genset start batt for starting both engines. Already have the ACR which keeps the G24 topped off. Has worked flawlessly for 9 years now.

One question: I thought that when you had 2 separate alts charging the same bank of batts, the one with the lower output gets effectively cancelled out by the higher output one. In my case, the eng alt is a 50A, while the house alt is an 80A. If this is the case, then I may wind up overtaxing the 80A -- it'd be doing all the work of charging a house bank that would now be comprised of 3 Lifeline 8Ds. That is a total of 765AH. The minimum needed seems to be 20% of batt capacity, or in this case ~150A. As things are now, my 80A alt charging two 8Ds with 510AH is only at ~16%. Would the smaller 50A alt ever kick in to help out? Or am I overthinking this? Hate to screw up a system which has been working well thus far.