Victron 50/100 MPPT - Bluetooth disappears

[mvweebles]

I am completing a refit that includes extensive re-wire work with DC system. I have 4x200w solar panels on my trawler hard-top split into two strings - port and starboard. Each string runs in series to a Victron 50/100 MPPT With bluetooth.

My problem is the Bluetooth keeps dropping and disappearing. First one, then eventually the other. If I disconnect/power-cycle, they will re-appear, but that's a huge hassle. Wondering if the collective CF wisdom has some ideas on stuff to check - the Victron troubleshooting is pretty basic ("Make sure you are within network range...").

Thanks in advance -

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I am completing a refit that includes extensive re-wire work with DC system. I have 4x200w solar panels on my trawler hard-top split into two strings - port and starboard. Each string runs in series to a Victron 50/100 MPPT With bluetooth.

My problem is the Bluetooth keeps dropping and disappearing. First one, then eventually the other. If I disconnect/power-cycle, they will re-appear, but that's a huge hassle. Wondering if the collective CF wisdom has some ideas on stuff to check - the Victron troubleshooting is pretty basic ("Make sure you are within network range...").

Thanks in advance -

I'd upgrade to the latest firmware as a starting point and if that doesn't work out I'd contact Victron. I have two 50/100s with BT and one of them is rock solid, the other has a much much weaker BT range than its partner. I've never understood why and it is anecdotal, but even in my limited experience, the quality varies heavily.

[Avionics_Joe]

My Victron 35/150 MPPT's do this also, you will not believe this but rebooting the phone works every time.

Good luck.

Joe

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Avionics_Joe

My Victron 35/150 MPPT's do this also, you will not believe this but rebooting the phone works every time.

Good luck.

Joe

THanks Joe - I tried this and it did not work.

QUESTION - anyone have best track to Victron tech support? They seem to be highly compartmentalized and depend on FAQ as shield. Any guidance?

THanks in advance -

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

THanks Joe - I tried this and it did not work.

QUESTION - anyone have best track to Victron tech support? They seem to be highly compartmentalized and depend on FAQ as shield. Any guidance?

THanks in advance -

Ive had some responses in the past from a Victron employee on this forum (https://community.victronenergy.com/index.html). But, other times I have posted a question and it just scrolled off before anyone answered it because of the volume of questions coming in, but it's worth a try I think.

[rweeton]

We have 2 Victron MPPT controllers. One is a 100/50 the one other is a 100/30. They have worked perfectly for us. I have noticed if I am using bluetooth on my phone for music that sometimes the controllers don't register on the connect app. I suspect the music app is using too much Bluetooth bandwidth to allow the phone to process the MPPT BT signal.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by ThereAndBack

I'd upgrade to the latest firmware as a starting point and if that doesn't work out I'd contact Victron. I have two 50/100s with BT and one of them is rock solid, the other has a much much weaker BT range than its partner. I've never understood why and it is anecdotal, but even in my limited experience, the quality varies heavily.

agreed quality varies at victron lately too. Had the same issue with a MPPT 50/100 and an external BT dongle i had flying around fixed the issue. But now i need the VE port for remote steering through my BMS...
I noticed in a lot of fields that Victron lately save on costs through the backdoor by building things cheaper and compromise on Qualitiy control.
eg compare the Mulitplus 1 and 2 in detail and will find a lot saving meassures which they tell you improvements and give you 100Euro discount on MP2 to Mp1.
The Phoenix smart charger is a cooking 85 degrees celsius brick and Victron says thats normal, really cooking semiconductors with 85 degrees celcius garantuees for a short lifespan. The smart Orion DC2DC 12/12/30A delivers in reality 25A constant, not 30A. It did deliver over 35A but got very hot so Victron just rated it down and customers complaining they said we deliver 30A as promised.
I like Victron because of the integration thats possible but the direction Victron goes overall worries me....classic private equity stuff to squeeze the lemon....

So I am redesigning my system from 12V to 24V and went for Studer extender XTM instead of the mulitplus. Look in the product review, i done a comparison and the winner is more then clear...Studer.
They have great MPPT too but no "budget"-line like the 100V, smallest is 150V/40 like the Victron 150V/35 line and there prices are identical.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

I noticed in a lot of fields that Victron lately save on costs through the backdoor by building things cheaper and compromise on Qualitiy control.
eg compare the Mulitplus 1 and 2 in detail and will find a lot saving meassures which they tell you improvements and give you 100Euro discount on MP2 to Mp1.

The MP vs MP2 doesn't strike me as strictly a cost cutting measure although the change to a steel case definitely is. It's a conscious choice for different tradeoffs in the design. The MP2 does give up some surge capacity (500 watts less on both the 2kva and 3kva sizes). The high temperature de-rate curves are also slightly different on some sizes, but not all (the 2kva MP2 de-rates a hair more at high temps than the MP1, but for the 3kva they de-rate identically). The 5kva 230V models also de-rate identically, but with 10kw vs 9kw surge capacity. Peak efficiency is also about 1% higher on most of the MP2 sizes.

The big difference is a significant reduction in idle power draw on some of the inverter sizes. For the MP1 models, the 2kva idles at 9 watts (for a 12v version) and based on the one on my boat, this is accurate. The 3kva idles at 20 watts. For the MP2, the 2kva draws 10 watts, so no significant change. But idle draw on the 3kva MP2 is 13 watts (significant reduction over the 3kva MP1). Looking at the 5kva 230V models, the MP1 idles at 30 watts, the MP2 at 18. For a lot of people, that reduction in idle draw is well worth the tradeoff of lower surge capacity.

If the 3kva 120V MP2 had been available when I bought my 2kva MP1, I probably would have gone for the 3kva. The biggest reason I went with the 2kva MP1 was because the 3kva had twice as much idle draw and I expected to leave it running 24/7.


That said, the Studer gear does look nice. But from my quick look, I'm not sure it has the same nice systems integration as the Victron gear.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The MP vs MP2 doesn't strike me as strictly a cost cutting measure although the change to a steel case definitely is. It's a conscious choice for different tradeoffs in the design. The MP2 does give up some surge capacity (500 watts less on both the 2kva and 3kva sizes). The high temperature de-rate curves are also slightly different on some sizes, but not all (the 2kva MP2 de-rates a hair more at high temps than the MP1, but for the 3kva they de-rate identically). The 5kva 230V models also de-rate identically, but with 10kw vs 9kw surge capacity. Peak efficiency is also about 1% higher on most of the MP2 sizes.

The big difference is a significant reduction in idle power draw on some of the inverter sizes. For the MP1 models, the 2kva idles at 9 watts (for a 12v version) and based on the one on my boat, this is accurate. The 3kva idles at 20 watts. For the MP2, the 2kva draws 10 watts, so no significant change. But idle draw on the 3kva MP2 is 13 watts (significant reduction over the 3kva MP1). Looking at the 5kva 230V models, the MP1 idles at 30 watts, the MP2 at 18. For a lot of people, that reduction in idle draw is well worth the tradeoff of lower surge capacity.

If the 3kva 120V MP2 had been available when I bought my 2kva MP1, I probably would have gone for the 3kva. The biggest reason I went with the 2kva MP1 was because the 3kva had twice as much idle draw and I expected to leave it running 24/7.


That said, the Studer gear does look nice. But from my quick look, I'm not sure it has the same nice systems integration as the Victron gear.

Victron went from one high quality torodiol transformator to 2 cheap standard ones which means you loosing a lot of reserve and peak capacities. You loose much more then the Victron marketing figures and specs on paper tell you. 2nd look at the PCB boards of both, old is quality new is double sided surface mount throw away quality form china.
Run an AC close to constant spec on both and you see the difference already, MP1 does the job but goes in overload mp2 switches off as surge is too big and the same size studer is just operating it and not showing any stress at all.

Victron standby and "on hold" are not really usable so you need the always on at idle consumptions. My 2x XTM 24-3500 together uses less at idle then one MP1 3000 because their standby function really works compared to Victrons pulse approach that doesn't work with eg a freezer where the compressor switches on from time to time. With Studer i can use standby as it detects that compressor will start up, victron no.
Studer are real low frequency inverter while Victron are hybrid ones and with MP2 they go even more direction high frequency=cheaper.

Studer has CAN as Victron too and eg interates well with REC BMS. I need to dig a bit deeper but I am sure there is an interface between Victron and Studer as a lot offgrid systems get changed from Victron to studer lately on the inverter side. can understand why...

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Victron went from one high quality torodiol transformator to 2 cheap standard ones which means you loosing a lot of reserve and peak capacities. 2nd look at the PCB boards of both, old is quality new is double sided surface mount throw away quality form china.
Run an AC on both and you see the difference already, MP1 does the job but goes in overload mp2 switches off as surge is too big and the same size studer is just operating it and not showing any stress at all.


Studer are real low frequency inverter while Victron are hybrid ones and with MP2 they go even more direction high frequency=cheaper.


Studer has CAN as Victron too and eg interates well with REC BMS.

The Studer does have higher overload capacity for a given continuous output. But that doesn't automatically make it a better inverter. Both publish what they can do as far as overload capacity, so the information is there to size any of the models to run something like an A/C unit. You just might need a higher continuous rating with one inverter than another.


I haven't been inside a Multiplus 2, so I can't comment on board quality. But realistically, as long as works to its ratings and is reliable, I don't care if they use surface mount or hole mount components, etc.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The Studer does have higher overload capacity for a given continuous output. But that doesn't automatically make it a better inverter. Both publish what they can do as far as overload capacity, so the information is there to size any of the models to run something like an A/C unit. You just might need a higher continuous rating with one inverter than another.


I haven't been inside a Multiplus 2, so I can't comment on board quality. But realistically, as long as works to its ratings and is reliable, I don't care if they use surface mount or hole mount components, etc.

Well Victron delivers what they spec at the exact temps but nothing additional for a premium price. so your 12/3000 Mp2 at 40 degrees C you only get 2200W while the studer specs 3000W at 25 degrees C but actually delivers 3000W from -20 till 55 degrees C. The specs are ultraconservative on studer, so even 3500W is not even giving you an overload. That is what Victron delivered 20 years ago, promise and overperform...now private equity squeezing the lemon and live from the brand value and patch everything together. So time to move on for smart customers, which in offgrid a lot do lately. 10 years warranty is a word and only excellent quality allows you to do so