Welding Cable - Any Downsides when used for Starter Motor???

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Which plastic(s) is the insulation you are testing?

Well I dunno really but I think they are all PVC but dunno what sort.

I have stripped some of the insulation off the Aussie made marine cable along with both inner and outer insulation of the Aussie made welding cable. They are all immersed in diesel.

The idea is to find out if the welding cable is the same as the marine cable w.r.t. diesel resilience.

I'll give it a year max. My gut feeling is there will be no difference but I wait and see.

I haven't bothered to research the specification of the marine cable.

[GordMay]

Welding cable is typically insulated with EPDM (Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer), Neoprene, or PVC (Polyvinyl Chloride).
EPDM and Neoprene (slightly better than EPDM) are the most common synthetic rubber insulating jacket for welding cables, but are not very resistant to gas and petroleum based liquids.
PVC (standard or cross-linked) has much better resistance against chemical contacts.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Welding cable is typically insulated with EPDM (Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer), Neoprene, or PVC (Polyvinyl Chloride).
EPDM and Neoprene (slightly better than EPDM) are the most common synthetic rubber insulating jacket for welding cables, but are not very resistant to gas and petroleum based liquids.
PVC (standard or cross-linked) has much better resistance against chemical contacts.

That may be typical elsewhere but perhaps you missed post #20. The insulation on the Aussie welding cable which I will be using is stated to be 'V90TH PVC to AS3808'.

I'm not entirely clear if it applies to both layers of the insulation or not hence the DIY diesel test.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Wotname

... The insulation on the Aussie welding cable which I will be using is stated to be 'V90TH PVC to AS3808'.
I'm not entirely clear if it applies to both layers of the insulation or not hence the DIY diesel test.

I've been unable to find a technical description of V90TH insulation.
AS3808 is the AS/NZS general specification for insulating and sheathing materials for electric cables, which (like N/A standards) is unavailable (for free).
The Australian double-insulated welding cables, I found, all had the same insulation & sheath material (both either PVC, or Nitrile Modified PVC - a plasticizer for flexibility).

[Mr B]

Its easy, Just Google, Welding Cable Specifications,

Flexible welding cable,
Conductor, Plain annealed copper, AS/NZS 1125
Insulation, Nitrile, Butadiene-PUC Copolymer (TP90 MET ROHS)
Sheath,, Nitrile Butadiene - PUC Copolymer (TP90 MET ROHS)

Standards AS/NZS 1995

No battery cable has 400 Amps running thru it continously,

This is Free information from every welding company that makes welding cable,
Try Lincoln Welders in the USA, They will also give you the specs of their cables,

[Tonali99]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

While I agree with what you are saying, the bottom line is we make tradeoff decisions all the time. I'll bet dimes to donuts having propane on board is far more risky than welding cable. 1 or 2 boats seem to explode each year here locally from propane or gas issues. Welding cable is very rugged and no, the cover won't "melt and disappear" with a splash of oil or diesel, much less a drop or two.. It may soften over years.

I'm glad you added 'gas' to the list. In Florida it seems several disappear at the fuel dock.
Once a fella fueled a rod holder.
DO NOT trust the fuel dock boys/girls.

[blueshackle]

Hey all you.
Regarding the issue regarding Welding Cable.
Ihave not time for reading this very long script, but just want to give one comment:

I also have welding cable on my sailboat, - for + 30 years. It is a double (read and blue) 50 mm2 vinyl-covered with exsta layer of transparent vinyl (or similar plastic products). It can withstand all products you might expose it to, - even acid. But offcause not fire!!!!

Expensive? Can´t remember. But it´s a one time use of Money.

Regarding improvment and regulations: They are for sure ment for the best, but some are also ment for "sale of new equipment" to the bennefit of developers and manufactures. I have sold, installed, repaired and serviced radio and navigational equipment as well as engine alarm-systems etc. for + 35 years and seen a lot. But many of those new regulations do´nt save lives, - been soper and awake does! And all this new productions adon to the polutions of our globe.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Agree entirely. I was given something similar about 30 years ago and have not used it once. Instead I've used one of these for many years without too many gripes...

Amen to this hydraulic crimper. When crimping smaller wire be sure you get the jaws in the metal part, not just the plastic. Overall the best method I have, having done thousands of various size crimps to the point where the dies an my Ancor ratchet crimper no longer securely crimp. There are a couple die sizes in mine that I wish I had for doing 16-18 AWG terminals. Some sets have a broader range than the one I have, but it does a really secure crimp.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

Amen to this hydraulic crimper. When crimping smaller wire be sure you get the jaws in the metal part, not just the plastic. Overall the best method I have, having done thousands of various size crimps to the point where the dies an my Ancor ratchet crimper no longer securely crimp. There are a couple die sizes in mine that I wish I had for doing 16-18 AWG terminals. Some sets have a broader range than the one I have, but it does a really secure crimp.

Thanks, interesting. How large does it go?

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Thanks, interesting. How large does it go?

They come with dies for (in mm2) 4, 6, 10, 16, 25, 35, 50 and 70 cable lugs



They can be a bit brutal with the smaller stuff due to the compression force, but very dependable crimps, even with the budget units.

[Mickeyrouse]

Re hydraulic crimper:
also, though mine is an 8 ton model, 10 ton ratings are also available in about the same size, and I think even larger ratings ( with even more dies) are available.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I've been unable to find a technical description of V90TH insulation.
AS3808 is the AS/NZS general specification for insulating and sheathing materials for electric cables, which (like N/A standards) is unavailable (for free).
The Australian double-insulated welding cables, I found, all had the same insulation & sheath material (both either PVC, or Nitrile Modified PVC - a plasticizer for flexibility).

Thanks for looking; I hit the same roadblocks.

While I'm sure the insulation is suitable, there is nothing like DIY test to feel warm and fuzzy

[Chotu]

Crazy side thought. Maybe don’t route the cable where there is diesel spilling or potentially spilling?

Seems that’s the biggest fear on here. Diesel eating away the insulation

[Mickeyrouse]

It seems like this controversy of marine-rated tinned cable vs. un-tinned welding cable is much ado about very little. The premise for welding cable seems to be that it’s so much cheaper. I just checked various suppliers on the net. The price difference of 1/0 marine cable versus welding cable is about $1.80 per foot US. Considering that marine cable is tinned, which most assuredly holds up better and maybe performs a little better, and seems to have a safer jacket, which may or may not be important depending on whose engine compartment and bilge it’s lying in, how many have a cable run that the difference in cost is a material amount more than a couple cases of beer? If the argument is that welding cable is more suitable, that’s one thing. But if the controversy is only about welding cable is “almost as good, and a little cheaper”, well, I’m going to go without the couple cases of beer, and spring for marine.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

It seems like this controversy of marine-rated tinned cable vs. un-tinned welding cable is much ado about very little. The premise for welding cable seems to be that it’s so much cheaper. I just checked various suppliers on the net. The price difference of 1/0 marine cable versus welding cable is about $1.80 per foot US. Considering that marine cable is tinned, which most assuredly holds up better and maybe performs a little better, and seems to have a safer jacket, which may or may not be important depending on whose engine compartment and bilge it’s lying in, how many have a cable run that the difference in cost is a material amount more than a couple cases of beer? If the argument is that welding cable is more suitable, that’s one thing. But if the controversy is only about welding cable is “almost as good, and a little cheaper”, well, I’m going to go without the couple cases of beer, and spring for marine.

For me, it’s availability. I can go pick up welding cable or other ready made battery cables. I have to find tinned battery cables, order them online, etc. Plus, welding cable has worked my whole life so I am not too inclined to change that.