Which Golf Cart Batteries ?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Freerider

What terminal would you suggest for a house bank?
Terminal - LT, AP, LPT, APW, UT

I prefer the Marine Dual Terminal (Trojan ‘APW’), or the Wingnut Terminal (‘WNT’).
Either one will accept an automotive post cable clamp, and/or a ring terminal.

[anotherT34C]

Originally Posted by btrayfors

Two things, actually:

1. no way can you compare a Sears DieHard with a T-105; and
2. the cost comparison was intended to be with AGMs, gels, the "new technology AGMs", and the like...not with flooded batteries.

Bill

Since I don't really know much about batteries, can you please explain why they don't compare?

[camaraderie]

The fact is that no one has made the REAL cost comparison yet. The cheapest battery is the one that gives you the most amp hours over its entire cycle life...not the most amp hours at the 20 hour rating.

Example...Group31 100amp hour battery for $100...with a 2000cycle life (@50%) ...gives you (at a 50% discharge rate) ....100000amphours for 100 bucks...or 1000 amps per $$.

Example: Group31 100amp hour battery for $50...with a 800cycle life (@50%) ...gives you (at a 50% discharge rate) ....40000amphours for 50 bucks...or 800 amps per $$.

The more expensive battery is the better deal in this case. You need to know cycle life to make a decent judgment.

As an aside...AGM's/Gels do not make economic sense except in full time cruising situations, but their sealed nature and low self discharge rate may still make them worth looking into for some applications (long winter storage, limited space, side mounting etc.).

Bill's example of the Trojan T105's vs. the DieHard is interesting. 2 Group 29DieHards will cost about $240 $$'s for 230ah capacity. A Pair of Trojans with 225ah capacity wired as 12V...is the rough equivalent and costs $400. Neither party gives life cycles.
But...to come out even...the Trojans would have to last 66% longer.
I'm inclined to believe that they DO...hence Bill's comment...but it is difficult for the novice to figure this stuff out.

[btrayfors]

Cam's got it right: it's very hard to make comparisons.

BTW, Cam, T-105's don't cost $200 each anymore...at least not in the U.S. You can buy them new for well under $100 (several advertised golf-cart dealers on the Web have them, notably one in FL and one in AL).

I believe DieHards are made by Delphi Battery (they market their own Freedom brand of "deep cycle" marine batteries), but to my knowledge neither Sears nor Delphi bothers to provide AH ratings for their "deep cycle" batteries. They provide CA, CCA, and other such ratings, but these do not translate well into the type of service they'll get on a boat. The 20-hour rating is a much better measure.

It is instructive, too, that over 98% of golf-carts in the U.S. are powered by Trojan batteries. OEM and replacements. I submit that this is not due just to marketing, since some big names could clearly have competed in the advertising department (Sears, Exide, East Penn, etc.).

Also, to my knowledge Sears (Delphi) does not make a golf-cart size 6V deep-cycle battery. They make group 27s, 29s, 31s, 34s...all in 12V.

Bill

[camaraderie]

Hah...I looked at a solar site for current pricing! Guess you get raped if it is "green energy" and the "right price" if it is "old tech"!! Hah!...thanks for the correction...that makes it an easy choice!
Actually...Sears does publish a 20 hour spec for their marine die hards. It is in a hidden drop down specs link on each batteries description page. The group 29 is 115ah as I quoted....
Item Weight: 62.0 lbs. Transportation Type: Marine and recreational vehicle
Battery Group Size:29HM
Voltage: 12.0
Power Ratings:
Cold Cranking Amps (CCA at 0 deg.F): 675
Reserve Capacity (RC): 200 min.
Amp Hours at 20 Hour Rate:115
Container Material: Polypropylene
Warranties & Coverage:
Months in Use Free Replacement: 12 Months in Use Pro Rated Replacement:30
Dimensions:
Width: 6-3/4 in. Length: 13 in. ********
Right ...they do not make golf carts...I was just trying to get equivilent ah capacity at 12V for comparison.

[speedoo]

Originally Posted by btrayfors

BTW, Cam, T-105's don't cost $200 each anymore...at least not in the U.S. You can buy them new for well under $100 (several advertised golf-cart dealers on the Web have them, notably one in FL and one in AL).


Bill

Bill, I've had no luck finding these dealers on line, and I just spent a half hour or so googling. Can you tell me how you found them and also who the Florida dealer is? I'd like to find some up here in New England/NYC area for under $100 now and maybe in Florida as well later on.

[btrayfors]

Here are a couple with under $100 prices:

Parts and Batteries

The # 1 Golf Cart Battery TROJAN Brand on Sale Now!

There are many dealers offering T=105s in the $125-150 range.

Be careful: some used batteries are listed, too. You don't want those!

Bill

[BlueSovereign]

Man oh Man, I'm away for only 1 week and "everything turns to custard"

Freerider, permit me to offer a perspective as it applies to me and what I did about it. It can be simply summed up as "I may have been born yesterday, but I stayed up all night studying".

I was, electonics-wise, in the same place last September as you apparently are now. Here is my recommendation (note I did not say 'opinion'):

1. Get a copy of Nigel Calder's book: "Electrical and Mechanical Manual"
2. Take at face value some posts on CF. While all posts are created equal, some are more equal (i.e. mere opinions) than others
3. Value the inputs of the likes of Rick and GordMay, who have offerred numerous supporting evidence to their expertise
4. Seek out your own experts, who give you in ;your gut' a feeling of trust and confidence ... BTW, this has taken me nearly 6 months of hard work to achieve

With no disrespect implied to anyone one on CF, and similar to Caveat emptor, and as I have previously stated on CF: "Opinions are like *ssh*l*s, everyone has one.".

Good-luck.

BTW, note I have not included what my ultimate decision was on a similair issue to yours. Pvt message me if you would like that informatiomn.

William aka 'The PIRATE'

[mesquaukee]

Before you buy any batteries contact by one of the regional distributers of Trojans. The website is www.TrojanBattery.com/About-Us/MasterDistributorsUS.aspx
I had sent them an email asking for pricing for T105's, T125's J305H and the granddaddy L16H's. They gave me a price that matched all those discount batteries.
I ended up repowering with the 16 inch tall, 125 lbs, 435 Ahr, 6 volt, L16H's. Bought 4 of them directly from SafeStart, the Florida-Georgia Distributer. That is where your dealers get them.
They replaced 8 T105's that were still going strong after being in constant use for 5 years. I was once again leaving the land of plenty.
That was 5 years ago, they are still going strong. I paid $118 each, total of $500 or $100/year for 870 Ahr capacity.
The ultimate comparison is that it is next to impossible to get good batteries in the Caribbean. A friend of mine repowered in Panama. The "new" batteries were worse than his worn out set of 6 year old Trojan T105's. They sit to long in transit from the manufacturer, they slowly disharge and die.
There is a wealth of info at the Trojan Website about maintenance, the care of, charging of, equalizing of, watering of all very readable.
SiteMap: www.trojanbattery.com/About-Us/SiteMap.aspx
Users Guide: http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/UsersGuide_English.pdf
Battery Specs.:http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/productspecsguide.pdf
Go with the facts not opinions or beliefs. Avoid rumours and get Trojans.
Read and follow their use and care guides all listed on the left side of the site map. They explain all that acceptance charge, float charge and equalization charge stuff, better than most/all the books out there.

[bobfnbw]

Originally Posted by btrayfors

Two things, actually:

1. no way can you compare a Sears DieHard with a T-105; and
2. the cost comparison was intended to be with AGMs, gels, the "new technology AGMs", and the like...not with flooded batteries.

Bill

Bill actually thats changed quite a bit.
The NEW sears die hard marine battery is a odyessy battery, the pc2150 100 amp hour agm. I guess its as good a battery as one could expect for half the price.
I too was a fan of 6v golf cart batteries but after a lot of research found this battery to be the best overall for what I want.

DieHard Marine Battery, Platinum PM-1 - Group Size 31M

ODYSSEY Batteries

ODYSSEY Batteries - Marine Specifications

Still cost you more than the trojans, but you get a battery that will not leak, off gas, will accept a charge much faster than a flooded wet cell, can be mounted on its side if you had to, will work as a starting, windless, or house bank, and has a 3-Year Free Replacement Limited Warranty.
Not to bad. I bought 2 and plan on 4 more soon as I am able.
Just have to charge them properly.

[iain_scott]

Hi All,

Just another quick vote for the T105 Trojans. Bought 4 last year. I did a lot of research before I got them and I've been most impressed with them so far. Just to throw in my $0.02 - I'd stay away from SEALED batteries since they WILL lose water during a quick recharge. Eventually they'll be no water left and you'll have to chuck them. At least with a T105 or other open wet-cell battery you can open them up and top them off.

After 3 months liveaboard use with recharge from the 80A alternator I went through 2 litres of water on my previous house bank!

Regards,
Iain

[Albro359]

I really think, no matter what kind of cruising you do, AGM is the way to go...
sealed, no topping up, no leaks if you get rolled....low discharge when you can't charge 'em...great charge acceptance = low alternator hours
I have 4 105Ah 12 v AGMs for 3 years now and I think they are fantastic
I had flooded deep cycles before and had to throw em out after 3 years even though I equalised 'em
I have a 110A Balmar alternator with a 3 stage reg and it works just fine...on the standard wet cell lead acid setting
I run the engine twice a day (we have a engine driven fridge compressor) for an hour, run all the electronics and an Autohelm hydraulic pilot navlights at night (LED of course)...and a 49 lt/day water maker....and in the morning the battery bank voltage is still over 12V
So..we're doing fine...no wind generator...no solar

my advice...foregt wet cell batteries ..they're a pain in the a..s

Alan

SV DIVA

[sandy daugherty]

I have the system redcobra described, four East Penn / Deka L-16s giving me 740 amphours at 12 volts. With cables and watering system they weigh 520 pounds. I use a Freedom 20 and Heart interface to maintain them, and will be taking better care of these than I did my last set, which froze, after 5 years of service. I have a big generator and four elderly 55 watt solar panels. I'm dragging around almost 1500 pounds of electrical system on a weight-sensitive catamaran!

There are better alternatives: two deep cycle 12 volt batteries and a portable generator would cost less, weigh less, and be more versatile, while taking up less room! And unlike batteries, you CAN buy gas in the Caribbean.

[IslandHops]

"Watering System" ?
Can someone elaborate on what this is and how to set this up?

Thanks,
Island Hops.

[speedoo]

Originally Posted by IslandHops

"Watering System" ?
Can someone elaborate on what this is and how to set this up?

Thanks,
Island Hops.

Wet cell batteries require periodic (at least monthly, most would say) checking of water levels in each cell and topping off when necessary. A watering system helps make this chore easier. Here's a system from Trojan:

TROJAN GOLF CART BATTERY WATERING SYSTEM 6-8V - eBay (item 110631974513 end time Apr-04-11 13:46:29 PDT)

There may also be "automatic" systems, but I'd need to do a lot or research before trusting one.