Why do auto-pilots fail on long trips??

[nitpik]

CPT?

(I find the over-use of abbreviations a bit annoying - it tends to make some of us feel rather ignorant, and, in the long run, it really does not save typing time. Either you will find yourself explaining it to people like me, or the reader can't be bothered looking it up or asking, and then they don't get the benefit of your wisdom!)

[ohdrinkboy]

Originally Posted by nitpik

CPT?

(I find the over-use of abbreviations a bit annoying - it tends to make some of us feel rather ignorant, and, in the long run, it really does not save typing time. Either you will find yourself explaining it to people like me, or the reader can't be bothered looking it up or asking, and then they don't get the benefit of your wisdom!)

Try a bit of google before you criticize. That's the name of the autopilot.
CPT Autopilot Inc.

[nitpik]

That is my point!
The original post just said to use CPT, and when I Googled CPT I got nothing.
You have to know it is a brand of autopilot in the first place, in order to find out it is an autopilot!
(But thanks - I thrive on criticism!)

[billknny]

Originally Posted by nitpik

CPT?

(I find the over-use of abbreviations a bit annoying - it tends to make some of us feel rather ignorant, and, in the long run, it really does not save typing time. Either you will find yourself explaining it to people like me, or the reader can't be bothered looking it up or asking, and then they don't get the benefit of your wisdom!)

CPT is not an acronym, it is a brand of steering column mounted autopilot. Primitive and robust. Not a lot cheaper than carrying a spare drive unit, however.

On my boat we have two autopilot computers (an old, rather dumb, Raymarine, and a new, rather smart, B&G) and two autopilot drives (a Raymarine linear drive, and a Raymarine chain drive) connected to switches so we can run either drive through either computer. We routinely switch the drives to give them a rest and cool down. Oh, we carry a ready to install linear drive spare too, just in case.

I think the answer why so many drives fail on long passages is because most people don't really give the autopilots a workout and test before they take off across an ocean, that coupled by poorly balanced sail trim so the AP works hard even when it doesn't have to.

And lets not forget poorly balanced boats that get real squirrelly on some points of sail even for an experienced helmsman--no matter the sail trim.

Oh, and on how many boats does someone inspect the steering system every day for loose parts, chafe, cracks, odd sounds, etc, etc? I suspect a lot of AP drive failures could have been forestalled if someone had seen the failure developing before the boat rounded up with a clunk.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

.. . .

In addition I want spare steering rams too. I actually had a ram fail on passage to Sardinia, and found the AP couldn't handle the boat under sail in 20 knts with only a single rudder.

What happened to your ram? What even CAN happen to a hydraulic ram, other than failed seals? In which case they just leak, rather than failing to function?

If this is a naive misunderstanding, I would love to be corrected. Never thought about carrying a spare ram, although a set of seals is on my list for my winter refit.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Get a CPT as a back up, mount the drive motor plate and the wheel pulley.
That way you can install the boxes and plug them in in just a minute and have an autopilot.
Additionally it’s electrical consumption is almost nil, and as I believe it’s drive motor is actually a Bosch OTR truck 24V windshield wiper motor being driven at 12V it will tolerate lower voltage better.
Now I am not sure about the drive motor, that is second hand, but seems logical to me.

Never heard of these. What a reasonably priced backup. Im always surprised how many long distance cruisers have only one autopilot. Had two single handers come into Cocos Keeling while i was their with failed autopilots. Mine started growling on the last day of my big trip this year.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What happened to your ram? What even CAN happen to a hydraulic ram, other than failed seals? In which case they just leak, rather than failing to function?



If this is a naive misunderstanding, I would love to be corrected. Never thought about carrying a spare ram, although a set of seals is on my list for my winter refit.

Just failed seals. A spare ram would have allowed me to swap it out and get the seals replaced at my leisure.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Never heard of these. What a reasonably priced backup. Im always surprised how many long distance cruisers have only one autopilot. Had two single handers come into Cocos Keeling while i was their with failed autopilots. Mine started growling on the last day of my big trip this year.

Unless something better comes along, I will be going with the CPT as my backup when the time comes, and plan to partially set it up at the helm as A64Pilot described above so it's ready to go. The remaining components live in a plastic case for stowage below. AFAIK, it's the only wheel-steer AP that is up to the job when it comes to larger boats & heavier seas. And I've read many reviews that, due to its low power consumption, it often becomes the primary vs. backup AP for long-distance cruisers. Last time I checked it was steer-to-compass only, with its own separate compass. So completely stand-alone from other boat electronics which I would think would be a plus.

A wind vane might be even better, but problematic fitting onto a large, center cockpit boat, with the exception of the Hydrovane. The CPT is much less expensive, however, and far easier to install. Fwiw . . . .

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Exile

Unless something better comes along, I will be going with the CPT as my backup when the time comes, and plan to partially set it up at the helm as A64Pilot described above so it's ready to go. The remaining components live in a plastic case for stowage below. AFAIK, it's the only wheel-steer AP that is up to the job when it comes to larger boats & heavier seas. And I've read many reviews that, due to its low power consumption, it often becomes the primary vs. backup AP for long-distance cruisers. Last time I checked it was steer-to-compass only, with its own separate compass. So completely stand-alone from other boat electronics which I would think would be a plus.

A wind vane might be even better, but problematic fitting onto a large, center cockpit boat, with the exception of the Hydrovane. The CPT is much less expensive, however, and far easier to install. Fwiw . . . .

I have a hydrovane as well as the raymarine. But the CPT seems to be excellent value, i very much like the simplicity. Regards to compass course that's all i do now, i dont set track etc anymore as I now use my tablet and open cpn rather than the old plotter.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I have a hydrovane as well as the raymarine. But the CPT seems to be excellent value, i very much like the simplicity. Regards to compass course that's all i do now, i dont set track etc anymore as I now use my tablet and open cpn rather than the old plotter.

Is your Catalina 47 a center cockpit? How does the HV handle the boat in heavier weather/seas? Even though it's not servo operated, I've generally read good reviews, although it sounds like you definitely need to be attentive to sail balance. I like the idea of not using electricity and being so quiet, but the CPT may be the next best thing on those two factors, at least when it comes to boats the size of ours. And an obvious winner on cost & ease of installation.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Exile

Is your Catalina 47 a center cockpit? How does the HV handle the boat in heavier weather/seas? Even though it's not servo operated, I've generally read good reviews, although it sounds like you definitely need to be attentive to sail balance. I like the idea of not using electricity and being so quiet, but the CPT may be the next best thing on those two factors, at least when it comes to boats the size of ours. And an obvious winner on cost & ease of installation.

The 470 is rear cockpit with a big fat bum. Mostly the Hydrovane handles the boat well. In light winds it was struggling abit compared to my last boat. This was due to the catalina being faster in lighter winds, the hydrovane vane was struggling to drive the rudder due to the extra speed, combined with weak b apparent wind. On advice from Hydrovane I modified the rudder (hydrovane rudder) by shaving a little of the leading edge, this has fixed the problem. Also added their new extentable vane, which helps in the light wind. They have actually sent me a new rudder now free of charge, great people to deal with.

The other issue was I struggled to balance the boat in certain conditions due to the 135% genoa, the boat would get overpowered and was asking alot from the auxiliary rudder, i just cant get it right. Only happens in certain sea wind conditions. Ive just purchased a code zero, which will enable me to use my 100% jib instead of genoa. I think this will improve things, haven't set it up yet,

Overall im a fan of the hydrovane. It teaches me to sail the boat better.

[Matt Johnson]

Plus, the CPTs hold their value well if in working condition. I bought a used one, sent it back to CPT to have it checked and maintenance done, and kept it as a back-up for three years... loosing only $250 on the whole deal when done. Not bad insurance.

Matt

[Alita49DS]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Get a CPT as a back up, mount the drive motor plate and the wheel pulley.
That way you can install the boxes and plug them in in just a minute and have an autopilot.
Additionally it’s electrical consumption is almost nil, and as I believe it’s drive motor is actually a Bosch OTR truck 24V windshield wiper motor being driven at 12V it will tolerate lower voltage better.
Now I am not sure about the drive motor, that is second hand, but seems logical to me.

What is a CPT?

Can we have a deal here? Acronyms only to be used after the full phrase has been set out and the acronym then put in brackets after it?

I have sat through many a meeting at which acronyms have been bandied about. When I have asked what they meant it was clear that the majority of those present had no idea either bit were afraid to ask. In instances that those using them had no idea either.

So, unless it is so common that everyone is bound to get it, AC/DC as an obvious example, please don't do it. It is rude and arrogant. Above all unhelpful.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

What is a CPT?

Can we have a deal here? Acronyms only to be used after the full phrase has been set out and the acronym then put in brackets after it?

I have sat through many a meeting at which acronyms have been bandied about. When I have asked what they meant it was clear that the majority of those present had no idea either bit were afraid to ask. In instances that those using them had no idea either.

So, unless it is so common that everyone is bound to get it, AC/DC as an obvious example, please don't do it. It is rude and arrogant. Above all unhelpful.

Flick back a few posts, it's been explained. It's not a Acronym.

[Alita49DS]

I had not reached those posts when I replied.

However, thank you for making my point. When companies reduce their names to initials there is a risk that nobody has a clue what they make and therefore no reason to buy it.

RR might be an exception in one direction and GM in another.

Conversely, some companies have such dreadful names that abbreviation is the only sane choice. LG?